15 sec of just standing around, after using a "Boost"ed (H2H) ws...

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Well with the extremely limited testing I did, this won't make mnk take off unless boost adds a lot more for a mnk main.

With a 23 mnk subjob, boost bumped tp gain of spirit and soul jump by ~100%. Soul returns ~ 450 for me normally and with boost I got a lil over 900. And did some engagement testing as well. So I think boost is temporarily setting weapon delay to 999 and also adding that to current time until next attack. This is due to long delay until an auto from just activating boost with weapon drawn, but if have to draw weapon get same message that happens when try to redraw a long delay weapon if mob dies after you just swung.

For the damage bonus, I got an extra ~200 damage when used boost with jump. Was against tunnel worms in south gustaberg. I used gae derg+1, hotspur lance, and sword from arke (puk-something or other). All 3 weapons got the 200 damage. Would need to do more intensive testing to pick out things better, though each of the jumps were doing within 30 dmg of each other outside of the obvious crits.(only did 5-10 tests of boost vs unboosted to get an idea of how big of a boost would get)

Any ws or jump cleared the boost buff but delay on attack was still there after the attack.

If mnk gets the same damage when it uses boost I dont think this will fix stuff unless it applies to all hits of ws's like asuran fists, and is more pronounced or it adds a ton to mnks single hit ws's.

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How much damage do your Jumps do normally without Boost? Also, it's stated that effects are affected by job level, so you are not getting the full power effect.

I can remember the lances better than the sword. Using Hotspur lance(1 dmg), was ~85 normal, just shy of 300 with boost on the tunnel worms. I'd have to log in to check with the Gae Derg(299) again for more accurate numbers, but normals were in the 900 range, while boost was 1100 something. Sword is 100 some damage, and it followed same pattern of +200ish on the damage, used it to mix up delay to see if was based on that.(Damage was also really consistent enough that the small variation is likely due to the slight randomization in damage formula)

It mostly showed that the damage boost from boost was independent of delay and damage of the weapon.

Yeah, I may not be getting full effect, but it would have to go up a lot higher than 200ish to offset /sam or /war.

I'm going to assume that Boost is currently bugged entirely. You can't pull your weapons out if you use it outside of combat (which is in the "Accepted Bugs" section!) and it does not add any damage to WS (which is also in the "Accepted Bugs" section).

I think we should just calm down until they patch it and hopefully they get it working. From my understanding, it sounds like it should stop auto-attacking for a full attack round once it is used (to give you time to use a WS). For example if your normal delay is 3 seconds, I would assume that it is meant that Boost should stop your character from attacking for 3 seconds after you used the ability to give you time to use a weaponskill and/or any other job abilities that you intended to use before the weaponskill.

This whole 10-15 second thing I would assume is a bug. Surely they don't expect monks to stand around for 10+ seconds doing absolutely nothing, even if the thing DID in fact give +damage to weaponskills. That would make no sense whatsoever.

Most likely, the same bug that is preventing you from pulling your weapons out during the full duration of Boost is the same bug that is preventing you from swinging during the full duration of Boost.

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Originally Posted by Aysha

I'm going to assume that Boost is currently bugged entirely. You can't pull your weapons out if you use it outside of combat (which is in the "Accepted Bugs" section!) and it does not add any damage to WS (which is also in the "Accepted Bugs" section).

I think we should just calm down until they patch it and hopefully they get it working. From my understanding, it sounds like it should stop auto-attacking for a full attack round once it is used (to give you time to use a WS). For example if your normal delay is 3 seconds, I would assume that it is meant that Boost should stop your character from attacking for 3 seconds after you used the ability to give you time to use a weaponskill and/or any other job abilities that you intended to use before the weaponskill.

This whole 10-15 second thing I would assume is a bug. Surely they don't expect monks to stand around for 10+ seconds doing absolutely nothing, even if the thing DID in fact give +damage to weaponskills. That would make no sense whatsoever.

Most likely, the same bug that is preventing you from pulling your weapons out during the full duration of Boost is the same bug that is preventing you from swinging during the full duration of Boost.

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If the can't draw weapon is a bug, its been a long standing bug and not tied to boost specifically. The message I got when using boost out of combat, is the exact same I have gotten a number of times with varied number of long delay weapons if the mob dies right after you swing and end up sheathing and have to redraw for an add. Go grab a base relic weapon with 999 delay to see this if you never have before, try hitting a mob, sheathing weapon and then re-engaging a target and will not be able to until the delay has passed and have an auto attack round ready.

Which I would be perfectly fine with getting fixed for all weapons. Being able to redraw a weapon even when auto-attack is on delay cooldown.

I speculated at whats happening earlier, as it seems to be most likely thing happening. Boost is not just adjusting delay for TP gain, but also adding the same amount to the current auto-attack cooldown delay, be it at 0 and ready for an attack, or 500 from just swinging a lance. And by adding it to that active delay counter, it is causing you to not be able to draw your weapon, just like what happens with any other long delay weapon still on cooldown if it gets sheathed. It adding to the current active delay might be a bug, but I think that is intended so a random auto attack doesn't consume it before you weaponskill and the extra TP gain is to offset that wait.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

If the can't draw weapon is a bug, its been a long standing bug and not tied to boost specifically. The message I got when using boost out of combat, is the exact same I have gotten a number of times with varied number of long delay weapons if the mob dies right after you swing and end up sheathing and have to redraw for an add. Go grab a base relic weapon with 999 delay to see this if you never have before, try hitting a mob, sheathing weapon and then re-engaging a target and will not be able to until the delay has passed and have an auto attack round ready.

Which I would be perfectly fine with getting fixed for all weapons. Being able to redraw a weapon even when auto-attack is on delay cooldown.

I speculated at whats happening earlier, as it seems to be most likely thing happening. Boost is not just adjusting delay for TP gain, but also adding the same amount to the current auto-attack cooldown delay, be it at 0 and ready for an attack, or 500 from just swinging a lance. And by adding it to that active delay counter, it is causing you to not be able to draw your weapon, just like what happens with any other long delay weapon still on cooldown if it gets sheathed. It adding to the current active delay might be a bug, but I think that is intended so a random auto attack doesn't consume it before you weaponskill and the extra TP gain is to offset that wait.

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Nah, if you use Boost (from what I've seen of the reports) outside of combat, it locks you from pulling out your weapon during the entire duration (~17s?) regardless of whether or not you spent it with Chi Blast.

That is most definitely a bug and it's different than the "I just swung my GAX and killed something and must wait a couple seconds before pulling it back out" that's always been there.

We're talking about a buff from a JA that is preventing you from drawing your weapon entirely.

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Originally Posted by Aysha

Nah, if you use Boost (from what I've seen of the reports) outside of combat, it locks you from pulling out your weapon during the entire duration (~17s?) regardless of whether or not you spent it with Chi Blast.

That is most definitely a bug and it's different than the "I just swung my GAX and killed something and must wait a couple seconds before pulling it back out" that's always been there.

We're talking about a buff from a JA that is preventing you from drawing your weapon entirely.

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The point I am making, is that it is functioning in, and giving the exact same message as if that happened. Which is leading me to believe that using boost is changing the current delay countdown by adding a large value to it. And since Delay countdown is not at 0 meaning can auto attack, much like how when need to wait on a G.Axe, Scythe, lance, or other long delay weapon. People are just getting a bit more bent out of shape because Boost is causing a longer delay, but functioning just like any other time your delay countdown for an auto attack is not at 0 and ready to auto attack. And that lil window even without boost can cause problems at times.

So I doubt it is boost itself causing the problem, but instead the core system not letting you draw your weapon unless sitting at 0 Delay with an auto attack at the ready. Boost comes into the picture now, only because it is changing what your current delay is sitting at to prevent an auto-attack from eating boost mid combat. Current Delay and Weapon Delay are not the same thing, in case someone is getting that confused.

I checked on this in game myself while doing the testing. Jump consumes Boost the same way Chi blast would. Same results as you mention, difference is I am looking at why it is happening. Unless they can find a delay value that works to keep an auto attack from going off too early for superbuffed Mnks and normal mnks, it is likely going to take going back to the very foundation of the auto attack system to fix it.

I do agree that the current amount of delay that boost is adding is likely excessive, but I don't know what kind of value is ultimately needed for a capped martial arts, gear haste, magic haste Mnk to have enough of a window to not have an auto-attack remove boost early and not make the wait absurd for bare bone geared monks.

Either way, without seeing the exact code no one will know what is actually going on. And this is what makes the most sense based off of what I saw when I was testing out Boost with mnk as a SJ.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

The point I am making, is that it is functioning in, and giving the exact same message as if that happened. Which is leading me to believe that using boost is changing the current delay countdown by adding a large value to it. And since Delay countdown is not at 0 meaning can auto attack, much like how when need to wait on a G.Axe, Scythe, lance, or other long delay weapon. People are just getting a bit more bent out of shape because Boost is causing a longer delay, but functioning just like any other time your delay countdown for an auto attack is not at 0 and ready to auto attack. And that lil window even without boost can cause problems at times.

So I doubt it is boost itself causing the problem, but instead the core system not letting you draw your weapon unless sitting at 0 Delay with an auto attack at the ready. Boost comes into the picture now, only because it is changing what your current delay is sitting at to prevent an auto-attack from eating boost mid combat. Current Delay and Weapon Delay are not the same thing, in case someone is getting that confused.

I checked on this in game myself while doing the testing. Jump consumes Boost the same way Chi blast would. Same results as you mention, difference is I am looking at why it is happening. Unless they can find a delay value that works to keep an auto attack from going off too early for superbuffed Mnks and normal mnks, it is likely going to take going back to the very foundation of the auto attack system to fix it.

I do agree that the current amount of delay that boost is adding is likely excessive, but I don't know what kind of value is ultimately needed for a capped martial arts, gear haste, magic haste Mnk to have enough of a window to not have an auto-attack remove boost early and not make the wait absurd for bare bone geared monks.

Either way, without seeing the exact code no one will know what is actually going on. And this is what makes the most sense based off of what I saw when I was testing out Boost with mnk as a SJ.

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Boost is stated to raise delay now, but the fact that the buff is allowed to prevent you from engaging until it wears off (and you get zero benefit from it) has got to be a bug.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

Boost is stated to raise delay now, but the fact that the buff is allowed to prevent you from engaging until it wears off (and you get zero benefit from it) has got to be a bug.

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Which does need fixing. But I don't think it is the boost status itself that is causing it, instead it is the core auto-attack system not letting you engage if an auto attack is not ready. Boost is now causing this to be more of an issue as on activation as it is adding something like 2000 to current delay (likely different ammount for weapon delay) and the core system is seeing you don't have an attack ready so it won't let you draw your weapon. I'll have to do some digging, as I think there was a dev response a while back in regards to not being able to draw your weapon without an auto attack ready as intentional.

Either way, I don't think boost in this iteration is enough to fix mnk unless mnk mains are getting significantly more than 200ish damage added to base attacks and it applies to every hit in multi-hit ws or is giving a very large boost to ws.

Edit: Dev response on drawing weapons in the past.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We’ve got more great changes planned! I am sure you have all experienced times when you sheath your trusty weapon and can’t seem to draw it again in time to defend yourself from monster attacks.

Luckily the development team is currently looking into the below changes as a result of experiments with weapon sheathing, drawing, and attack time.

• Reduction in time for sheathing and re-drawing weapons
  
  After giving consideration to weapon attack delay as well as the necessary time it takes for the sheathing animation, we are adjusting the wait time between sheathing and re-drawing a weapon. We will be shortening the times and making it so players can draw weapons smoothly.
  
  *We are looking to adjust the system in this way to reduce stress since it is not possible to eliminate the error message or change the weapon drawing timing. Likewise it would cause a large amount of server lag if we simply removed the wait time completely since information for drawing/sheathing is constantly sent to the server.
  

As long as everything goes smooth, we are planning to introduce this to the test server with the next version update. Explaining how this will feel in words only is a bit hard, so we would definitely like you all to try it out on the test server when it is implemented. :)

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On the JP forums a CM replied "yeah boost doesnt work on weapon skills and it removes boost. since it works during the interval between auto attacks you have to wait for it" and people replied back "I don't understand"

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...150#post599150

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

On the JP forums a CM replied "yeah boost doesnt work on weapon skills and it removes boost. since it works during the interval between auto attacks you have to wait for it" and people replied back "I don't understand"

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...150#post599150

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Dunno who that CM was that said that but they're wrong. It's a bug, because the developers accepted it as a bug (it's in the Accepted Bugs section) which tells me Boost is supposed to apply damage to WS.