How to get the AAGK trust?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It's not that it's a lot of work it's just that its obfuscated behind things I couldn't have known I had to do.

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The game was/is better when it isn't holding your hand and guiding you through everything, like WoW and everything that came afterwards. It gets the community to dig into the possibilities for ourselves and figure things out on our own, then share our findings in game and on forums. It helps keep the community active and interacting with each other as opposed to the hand holding we're used to these days where everyone can figure things out on their own, so no one even bothers talking about how to best accomplish this task, that fight or whatever it may be.

A couple of the other popular FFXI forums are still active enough to post these types of things fairly quickly after updates, I'd make those your first stop in the future if you'd rather avoid this kind of annoyance.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post482612

Says on the trust page it's a RoE objective. Doesn't say anything about the bundle of scrolls guy being part of it though.

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Right, and tha'ts the part I take issue with. I'll concede I should have known about the objective, but even if I knew, I wouldn't have found it because there are prerequisites that have no clear rhyme or reason or cluse within the game.

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The game was/is better when it isn't holding your hand and guiding you through everything

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I'm not asking for a hand hold, I'm asking for there to be reasonable hints within the game. There's a huge difference between hand holding and being too cryptic for a reasonable person to find.

The game doesn't always have to make you traverse the entire world to figure out that some random NPC has some random quest t hat doesn't really have anything to do with what you're trying to accomplish.

Having to think or sort things out is fine when it makes sense. Here, it doesn't make sense. There is nothing within the game to suggest to me that I might need to do some quest before I can get this objective, especially since very few objectives (other than those under the RoE quests category) depend on anything other than completing a previous objective.

It's just not good game design- it's an obstacle for the sake of having an obsticale, it's not there for a good reason. A simple solution would have been an RoE Objective that asks you to talk to this NPC. You wouldn't have any idea what for, and you'd still need to figure out that you need to do other things, but it would get you started.

The funnest moments in this game for me were always beating that hard boss, chatting with friends while grinding, and enjoying the storyline. I know of few people that enjoyed doing those quests that were too cryptic for any normal person to figure out without looking up a guide.

Most of th is patch was fine. Most of the pevious patches in recent history were fine. It's just this specific issue that grinded my gears.

Well someone figured it out since people have AAGK trust now so it can't be that cryptic. Jamal has been involved before with trust so going to him is a logical step, especially if you're a pair of fresh eyes just out looking for trust and not knowing about which ones there are etc. As for AAGK, it's no more cryptic than finding other trust. Would you have ever thought to go talk to that one random NPC in batallia downs S to get rainemard without being told to?

The fact that this had been figured out and posted before I'd even finished installing the update says to me this is just run of the mill ffxi where everything is known through the hive mind.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Well someone figured it out since people have AAGK trust now so it can't be that cryptic. Jamal has been involved before with trust so going to him is a logical step, especially if you're a pair of fresh eyes just out looking for trust and not knowing about which ones there are etc. As for AAGK, it's no more cryptic than finding other trust. Would you have ever thought to go talk to that one random NPC in batallia downs S to get rainemard without being told to?

The fact that this had been figured out and posted before I'd even finished installing the update says to me this is just run of the mill ffxi where everything is known through the hive mind.

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The people who "figured it out" first probably already had the prerequisites done and didn't have to do anything to get the objective. Which is why there wsas apparently some debate as to which past Trusts were required.

I think he is just used to the big huge signs above NPC's heads and all the hand-holding most newer MMO's do.

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Originally Posted by Immortta

I think he is just used to the big huge signs above NPC's heads and all the hand-holding most newer MMO's do.

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I was continuously subbed to FFXI for over 11 years TYVM (and still on and off since then) and loved almost every minute of it. But that doesn't mean the game is perfect. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that you don't have to look up every minute detail of every piece of content on a guide or walkthrough anymore in games today. And, in my opinion, the amount of cryptic BS in this game is the main reason why it didn't ever become 1/10th as big as WoW- The game didn't even have something resembling a tutorial for years and years and wasn't very approachable. While there's nothing inherently wrong with that, it limits the potential size of the playerbase and it's one of the reasons the game is so small today.

You don't need to be a jerk towards someone with a legitimate criticism. Not every quest and item HAS to be a brain teaser. Your post just screams "you kids and your easy games!"

Figuring out how to beat that hard boss with the cryptic mechanic = fun
Wasting an hour running around the world searching for a clue that doesn't even actually exist until you eventally ask on an online foruim = not so fun.

I loved the game in spite of the cryptic stuff, not because of it. The epic story, the challenging battles, the variety of jobs and the uniqueness of each, the sheer amount of stuff and places to visit, and finally, the social interaction that came with it all- those are the things t hat kept me playing the same game for over a decade (This last bit is the thing I think is distinctly not as present in games today).

I'm like you. You and me, we like to be told exactly where to go and just get things done. But traditionally that's not how the game has been right? This really isn't any different from any other in-game mystery is it? New missions came out, people progressed as best they could in-game. Some people would get stuck and ask online, often receiving help from people who were able to figure it out.

"I'm stuck, how do I start this quest?"
"Well you do this and that. But you have to have done the other thing first."
"Thanks, I'll try it."

Let's be thankful that there are other players out there and we are not playing alone. And let's just have faith in other players who will figure things out for us when things get too tough. A lot of players don't want things spoon fed to them and for the rest of us that's what wikis and forums are for.

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Originally Posted by detlef

I'm like you. You and me, we like to be told exactly where to go and just get things done. But traditionally that's not how the game has been right? This really isn't any different from any other in-game mystery is it? New missions came out, people progressed as best they could in-game. Some people would get stuck and ask online, often receiving help from people who were able to figure it out.

"I'm stuck, how do I start this quest?"
"Well you do this and that. But you have to have done the other thing first."
"Thanks, I'll try it."

Let's be thankful that there are other players out there and we are not playing alone. And let's just have faith in other players who will figure things out for us when things get too tough. A lot of players don't want things spoon fed to them and for the rest of us that's what wikis and forums are for.

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I hear you on this, but I don't like to depend on other people for information I feel like should be able to be found within the game (even if it's not immediately obvious). While we know it's an RoE objective, there's no way to know whatsoever that a regular quest needs to be done and some random Trust is required to have been obtained for no apparent reason (Unless someone can explain to me WHY AAGK depends on having this particular trust). I expect that I need to work with others to complete some content and get the best CP/EXP/merits and do other things effectively. I just don't like the lack of information. Even if it's just a hint on a book in a library that I'm not told about, the info should be in the game somewhere. I don't mind searching for it. What bugs me is that no such information actually exists in the game. You either have to guess, have already done the unknown requirements, or ask someone who has done those things/read a guide. It's not like a lot of the other cryptic things in the game where there are clues available but you have to find them or think. So yes, it is a bit different from many other in-game mysteries. Usually there's something to steer you in the right direction, even if it's very vague or not on the beaten path.

It just bugs me that there isn't any real rational explanation for the requirements- it seems totally arbitrary. I may just be nitpicking here, but this bugs me.

Well everyone is different and the DEV chose that system for this game because of limitations or design purposes. They won't change it much outside of what they've already done.

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Originally Posted by Immortta

Well everyone is different and the DEV chose that system for this game because of limitations or design purposes. They won't change it much outside of what they've already done.

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There's some fairness to this- My first thought would be have the RoE NPC drop a hint when there's something new- but it might be more work than one would think to have the NPC say something different one t ime for every unique thing (Considering that there are a lot of NPCs in the game that you have to talk to multiple times in some cases to get them to say what you want when you have more than one thing that involves them active).

They've done very well with most of the patches lately- Just this one thing really annoyed me since I ended up wasting merits and talking to too many ppl to count before getting an answer (At that point I'd only ever seen one person using it so maybe those people were in the same boat :p )