So new enmity what does it mean?

Hello,

We’ve been receiving quite a lot of questions and feedback on the enmity adjustments made in the March version update, so I’d like to respond to some of the larger topics.

• The reason why we made adjustments
  
  With the implementation of the item level system, both characters and weapon skills were adjusted, and as a result the amount of enmity generated by damage dealt increased. This caused the enmity cap to be reached too quickly, which made it difficult to control enmity.
  
  Due to this situation, we made adjustments by increasing the enmity cap and simultaneously decreasing the amount of enmity generated through damage, thus allowing for a longer period of controlling the target enemy.
  
  
• Targets easily rushing back line jobs
  
  While adjustments were made to decrease the amount of enmity generated from damage, enmity generated from abilities, support, and healing spells saw no large changes, and it’s become difficult to maintain enmity on targets like in the past.
  
  However, this means that the weight of enmity generated from abilities and spells has become relatively larger, and this has made it so warrior, paladin, and rune fencer, who possess many of these, are able to more easily control their a target.
  (Of the jobs designed to be a tank, we feel that ninja is lacking in the ways to gain enmity, and we are planning to make adjustments to this in a future version update.)
  
  Prior to the adjustments, the weight of enmity generated from damage was higher, and as there were many cases where emphasis was placed on damage dealing efficiency when selecting a front line job, there was a situation where it was becoming more difficult to choose a job that was proper for enmity control.
  
  Due to this, we’d like to make it so each job is able to elicit their own unique characteristics by increasing the necessity for enmity equipment and abilities that control enmity.
  
  In the event you need to protect back line jobs, we’d like everyone to try various methods for maintaining enmity such as adding jobs that possess a wealth of enmity generating means or utilizing support-type jobs to manipulate enmity.
  
  
• Back line alter egos taking hate too easily
  
  The development team is aware that back line alter egos are easily pulling hate. Since alter egos function based on a special routine for each character, it’s difficult for fine enmity control, and we are currently looking into adjusting the amount of enmity generated by tank-type and healing/support-type alter egos.

Thank you Camate for the response for why you made the changes. Might we get an explanation on exactly what the changes were as that was kind of the point of this thread when I made it. Specifically the questions asked in the OP

As you should be aware, this is simply a translated version of:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...537#post547537

Thus, they simply put the translated version of that into the first topic they could find that was on a similar subject. They were not aiming to answer any of the questions in this thread, because the response was not for this thread, but for the other one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camate

[*]Targets easily rushing back line jobs

While adjustments were made to decrease the amount of enmity generated from damage, enmity generated from abilities, support, and healing spells saw no large changes, and it’s become difficult to maintain enmity on targets like in the past.

However, this means that the weight of enmity generated from abilities and spells has become relatively larger, and this has made it so warrior, paladin, and rune fencer, who possess many of these, are able to more easily control their a target.

(Of the jobs designed to be a tank, we feel that ninja is lacking in the ways to gain enmity, and we are planning to make adjustments to this in a future version update.)

Prior to the adjustments, the weight of enmity generated from damage was higher, and as there were many cases where emphasis was placed on damage dealing efficiency when selecting a front line job, there was a situation where it was becoming more difficult to choose a job that was proper for enmity control.

Due to this, we’d like to make it so each job is able to elicit their own unique characteristics by increasing the necessity for enmity equipment and abilities that control enmity.

In the event you need to protect back line jobs, we’d like everyone to try various methods for maintaining enmity such as adding jobs that possess a wealth of enmity generating means or utilizing support-type jobs to manipulate enmity. [/list]

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This change is actually a very bad thing. Take for example THF, "Enmity Controllers". While using Trion that can us Flash and Provoke often times he'll start with hate. But if I gain hate, I have a hard time transferring it back if I want to stack abilities. Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, Bully, and Assassin's Charge with Rudra's Storm is usually a large amount of DMG, but because I've used 4 abilities in tandem, It's like that DMG doesn't even matter until I outright kill what I'm fighting. On my SMN, I sub SCH and me switching from Light Arts to Dark Arts is often more than enough to pull focus. Heck, even Pacifying Ruby is useless, because the enmity I generate from use a Blood Pact isn't negated enough by the ability.

If you want to keep like this I feel that certain abilities need to be removed from Generating enmity at all. There's no reason that Sneak Attack or Trick Attack, themselves should generate a massive amount of hate, they're suppose to be 'discrete movements' that go with the lore of thief. A WHM shouldn't pull hate for switch to Solace, nor a SCH for using Libra or switching Grimoires. I haven't tried BLM's Enmity Dowse, but I can only imagine that it's not as effective as it should be. I was really disheartened at getting an enmity control BP only to have it become unusable while I'm by myself or in a small group.

Special attention needs to be made to pet jobs. You should not do a 7k flaming crush on a new target, walk up and hit that target once and have the enmity on you. You can even let an avatar attack a target for a long while, and if you cast a buff or heal will sometimes pull hate. From what I hear BST and PUP have similar issues now. If spells are hate generation tools, then using wards should get avatars hate. I strongly feel something had to be done with enmity. But I do not see why pets taking damage instead of their masters and destroying that relationship is beneficial to the game or their respective jobs however, indeed it destroys the ability to solo some things that was possible before and makes pet jobs much more at risk than ever before. Abilities like stout servant suggest that pets should be taking damage at least some of the time.

Avatar:Enmity+X = bugger all now

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AtrixWolfe

Special attention needs to be made to pet jobs. You should not do a 7k flaming crush on a new target, walk up and hit that target once and have the enmity on you. You can even let an avatar attack a target for a long while, and if you cast a buff or heal will sometimes pull hate. From what I hear BST and PUP have similar issues now. If spells are hate generation tools, then using wards should get avatars hate. I strongly feel something had to be done with enmity. But I do not see why pets taking damage instead of their masters and destroying that relationship is beneficial to the game or their respective jobs however, indeed it destroys the ability to solo some things that was possible before and makes pet jobs much more at risk than ever before. Abilities like stout servant suggest that pets should be taking damage at least some of the time.

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beast enmity has been messed up since the level cap went to 80, it's THAT long ago, it's just worse now, pup's has always been screwed up however, even solo Valoredge has never been able to tank. for about 10 years I made a living on my beast, solo, fighting with my pet and letting the pet hold hate-note, usually not using jugs and Snarl didn't exist for almost the entire time. it wasn't because I was a bad beast-I'm VERY good actually-it's because the pets were very tough, hit hard and I geared whenever possible to make them even better. Then came level 80 and abyssea. since they decided to make charming impossible there and they funneled all play until about level 95 through Aby they made all development jug-based and jugs have always had a level cap penalty vs. the master, AND they have also always been gimped compared to their wild counterparts-relic gloves could close the level penalty but nothing fixed the overall weakness in comparison to the real mob. They also made it possible to make almost invulnerable pets, which brought in the bandwagon beasts and the "sic your pet and then AFK" method of play, and they developed accordingly from that point on. we are currently at a crossroads from "either send the master OR send the pet, not both" to "send both but don't expect much from the pet", not an improvement in this beast's eyes but also not likely to ever change. While the exact mechanics change with each of the other pet jobs the basic gripe is the same. We've been asking for fixes to this situation since day one of the forums, and I guess 3.5 years of silence should serve as our answer, "NO".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crevox

As you should be aware, this is simply a translated version of:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...537#post547537

Thus, they simply put the translated version of that into the first topic they could find that was on a similar subject. They were not aiming to answer any of the questions in this thread, because the response was not for this thread, but for the other one.

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Which really kind of means it should've been put in another thread instead of clogging up this one making it appear like this one had been responded to

While I appreciate that it's possible to take more jobs to things like Ark Angels II and tanky fights are far more manageable in a sense for the average PLD, the things I took a PLD to prior were barely an issue for me as PLD. Additional enmity and Fast Cast swapped in for Flash, enmity swapped in for every JA, stacked WS macros, a solid self-cure set for enmity, etc. This all made tanking very manageable. The only time I'd ever have an issue was during buff-stripping if mages couldn't buff me back up in Delve 2. Of course this became moot once I made a MDT set that capped with Shell I. Anyone who put a reasonable amount of effort (less than I did but more than the bandwagon fellows did) would have little trouble in a cookie-cutter setup stacked with RNGs, which is what you'd find in most content involving PLD.

I assumed that, upon reading the update post, there was an increase in the hate cap. This is probably what should have been done honestly. Upon entering Vagary, first thing we did following update, we were under the impression the hate oddities we noticed were only present during Vagary. After leaving and finding the same results we were astounded. How did this pass the QC phase? There are many adjustments I agree with by SE, but when WHMs in my linkshell mourn the difficulties of nearly capped enmity reduction still netting them ridiculous hate on Wopket there's something afoot. I wonder if we were expected to bring a PLD to everything now? Some voicing of the expectations of the Devs would be greatly appreciated. If bringing a warrior has indeed become important I'm all for it as it's been my favorite overlooked job since I shelved PUP for the sake of relevance. I think I got two months of use out of WAR before Fudo broke the game.

In spite of the rant, thanks for responding to the community's concerns. It's great to know we're heard somewhat.

I've definitely found issues with hate control and healer trusts.
They just peal hate clean off and it's very tough to get it back because they sit and cure spam themselves, this is esp an issue at lower levels.
My 99 dnc doesn't have any issues but she has a high atk speed and greater power over the trust npcs, and roams with a rdm partner.

But my other jobs have more issues. My pld is most notable lately with karaha-baruha because I've used it recently (and she only just got cure IV). Not so much an issue with blm type trusts tho, that new sch lady wasn't an issue at all, I've not tried cherukiki though, as she favors regen it might not be too bad.
I've not tried pup yet either with like tank trusts and such to see how things are reflected.