Please nerf monk and samurai so other DDs can play

As long as there is a Tank, and Healer, the other 4 jobs in the party should not matter and SHOULD be able to perform and clear content intended for parties of that size.
If there is a new inclination of the DEV team to balance things out then it should be there goal to see all jobs included in end game content.

However, I feel that much of this is fueled by what people have found to be the optimal build for beating content. Once it is beat, then beaten easily, that is what everyone wants to do. What is the easy way out? Oh it is sending in MNK, RNG, SAM to pummel the S**T out of the monster before it gets of the mega move that can/will end the run as a failure. This is a most unfortunate thing, but it is a thing none the less. I always try to have a job ready that I have to play in order to the latest content, though I true love is BLM and I never get to go anywhere on that unless it is old content (sad fact) so I would love to see changes but no nerfs. Buffing up the other DD classes so they can be on the same level of the cookie cutter DD flavor of the time.

People always complain about job balance, since the beginning of the game.

Square always boost and nerf jobs to make people level and gear different things, bandwagon is the key to long-term play. Bandwagon job couple of years ago was bst cause they could solo almost anything, bandwagon job has changed so many times over the years and it will change again.

Sam hasn't always been THE job to have for anything, it used to be weak before the 2h update and the only reason you would want a sam is to set up a skillchain for the powerful black mages to kill stuff faster.

Monk used to be a loljob too, I remember sitting on the side boosting to 12 to do a chi blast. The only thing monk used to be good for was farming pop items. The ultimate kick in the teeth was monk was the job nobody wanted yet it was the job that was the hardest to gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balloon

Rangers are the most broken job in the game at the minute. That's not really even talking about rangers, though, that's an enmity issue.

Let's not nerf, let's just actually get some balance in there. I remember when every other word was balance.

---

I was on WHM in most alliance/event runs for a decade, and while I was watching the tank and frontliners of course, I actually kept my eye locked on the Rng, because their HP would suddenly plunge radically like a luge racer. In those long resting-MP times I would often wonder about Ranger. They have the same base evasion skill as WHM, rank E, and this always struck me as odd because Rangers are hunters - they are fit, lithe and agile from tracking in the wilderness. So they are closer to THF than most jobs in a lore sense, as they are agile, fit, stealthy and swift - if you are not those things you cannot be a hunter. So I always felt RNG should have had a base evasion skill inbetween WAR and THF, not in the lower mage categories. Obviously with statvom, the balance is redressed somewhat. But I still think Ranger should have a high evasion skill, good enmity-down abilities / armors, etc. to compensate from the fact they have huge damage output but lack the heavy armor & DT gear of tanks. I remember every time our Ranger used Jishnu's the mob would suddenly lock onto him and not give up and all us mages were curebombing him literally till we ran out of mp lol. And he'd be rocking that light armor and evasion rank E as the NM raged on him. I think your word "broken" is a good one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stompa

I was on WHM in most alliance/event runs for a decade, and while I was watching the tank and frontliners of course, I actually kept my eye locked on the Rng, because their HP would suddenly plunge radically like a luge racer. In those long resting-MP times I would often wonder about Ranger. They have the same base evasion skill as WHM, rank E, and this always struck me as odd because Rangers are hunters - they are fit, lithe and agile from tracking in the wilderness. So they are closer to THF than most jobs in a lore sense, as they are agile, fit, stealthy and swift - if you are not those things you cannot be a hunter. So I always felt RNG should have had a base evasion skill inbetween WAR and THF, not in the lower mage categories. Obviously with statvom, the balance is redressed somewhat. But I still think Ranger should have a high evasion skill, good enmity-down abilities / armors, etc. to compensate from the fact they have huge damage output but lack the heavy armor & DT gear of tanks. I remember every time our Ranger used Jishnu's the mob would suddenly lock onto him and not give up and all us mages were curebombing him literally till we ran out of mp lol. And he'd be rocking that light armor and evasion rank E as the NM raged on him. I think your word "broken" is a good one.

---

I was more referring to the enmity that their relic weaponskills generate, or lack there of. Tanking is only viable when rangers are part of the picture, they have Decoy shot too. In situations where tanking is imperative, there's very little options other than RNG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pixela

People always complain about job balance, since the beginning of the game.

Square always boost and nerf jobs to make people level and gear different things, bandwagon is the key to long-term play. Bandwagon job couple of years ago was bst cause they could solo almost anything, bandwagon job has changed so many times over the years and it will change again.

Sam hasn't always been THE job to have for anything, it used to be weak before the 2h update and the only reason you would want a sam is to set up a skillchain for the powerful black mages to kill stuff faster.

Monk used to be a loljob too, I remember sitting on the side boosting to 12 to do a chi blast. The only thing monk used to be good for was farming pop items. The ultimate kick in the teeth was monk was the job nobody wanted yet it was the job that was the hardest to gear.

---

Ppl bandwagon bst during the dyna era, but that was on dated content. Bst could hold multiple mobs, but other jobs could do dyna without breaking a sweat. It was never a true badwagon job, as it pertains to efficacy in endgame. Bst were not used in sky (Rngs could widescan), nor in ToA salvage era, or shouted for during the abyssea era, and currently, it is not useful in delve.

Bst were never stronger than any bandwagon job. Bst was never on the level of a sam, rng, or mnk; never. Alot of ppl play badwagon jobs, because they are the strongest thing out; a ton of ppl play bst, but not for any particular reason, other than liking it, they just play/played it; huge difference. I never recall bst being shouted for endgame; this is what ppl are referring to, not the amount of ppl playing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattkoko

You are missing the point entirely. You should be allowed to play the job you want to play. The players that love the job mnk and sam are allowed to have their cake and eat it. People that love other jobs should be allowed the same. I am so tired of the argument, "oh just level another job." That is not the point.

---

I think his point is geared more towards the question of whom exactly isn't allowing you to play the job you love. And the answer is always "the other players". So unless SE makes other jobs OP enough to change the meta of the game so people uses other jobs (eventually leading to leaving most jobs but the most OP in end game again) there isn't much they can do about it.

This has always happened and it has always been a community problem rather than a balance one.

Most players simply lack the skill and will to think about different ways of doing things, so they will just sheeply follow the strategy a few groups develop around X,Y and Z jobs/roles. Even if there are jobs that can work just as good of better if you adjust your strategy accordingly they will willingly ignore them unless they mean players can put even less effort into developing a strategy.

You can see proof of that in the way zerg "strategies" took over, since they were easier to use with a PUG (zero coordination required) while also providing big damage numbers and results (aka wins.) Did that mean players couldn't defeat the content in any other way? No, it just meant all shouts would be focused on the current flavor of the month strategy.

And since most jobs would not fit into that they would be left out, which then translated into rage and inferiority complex. But I digress.

My original point was that as Zarchery said, if you want to do things differently with the job you love then organize things yourself. And if you don't want to then level the current job flavor of the month, because no matter how many jobs get nerfed new ones will always take their place in the meta, and if you don't have some different jobs leveled chances are you will be left out of the bandwagon almost every time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raydeus

I think his point is geared more towards the question of whom exactly isn't allowing you to play the job you love. And the answer is always "the other players". So unless SE makes other jobs OP enough to change the meta of the game so people uses other jobs (eventually leading to leaving most jobs but the most OP in end game again) there isn't much they can do about it.

This has always happened and it has always been a community problem rather than a balance one.

Most players simply lack the skill and will to think about different ways of doing things, so they will just sheeply follow the strategy a few groups develop around X,Y and Z jobs/roles. Even if there are jobs that can work just as good of better if you adjust your strategy accordingly they will willingly ignore them unless they mean players can put even less effort into developing a strategy.

You can see proof of that in the way zerg "strategies" took over, since they were easier to use with a PUG (zero coordination required) while also providing big damage numbers and results (aka wins.) Did that mean players couldn't defeat the content in any other way? No, it just meant all shouts would be focused on the current flavor of the month strategy.

And since most jobs would not fit into that they would be left out, which then translated into rage and inferiority complex. But I digress.

My original point was that as Zarchery said, if you want to do things differently with the job you love then organize things yourself. And if you don't want to then level the current job flavor of the month, because no matter how many jobs get nerfed new ones will always take their place in the meta, and if you don't have some different jobs leveled chances are you will be left out of the bandwagon almost every time.

---

SE basically admitted that sam was overpowered, which is why they are updating other jobs http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post513076

I also disagree with the notion that this is a player problem as opposed to a balance issue when SE basically admitted this in the aforementioned link. Although players tend to use the easiest strategy, I agree with that. However, Bst is not out-dding a sam nor rng. That is a balance problem. Pets are stripped down/experience accuracy issues on difficult battles and the master is essentially a one-handed dd. Not sure the pt would clear lvl128 delve by swapping out sam for bst. I mean, replace rng and sams with bst; yikes. If it can be done, I am wit it^^ Perhaps it will open the eyes of the community, but i seriously doubt it....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balloon

I'm a huge advocate for buffs for pet jobs, and some of the other jobs, but the answer isn't to aim hate at other jobs. Tell them to fix things, not destroy things.

I absolutely disagree with the notion that jobs that 'can do other things' shouldn't be buffed to be competitive in other areas, though. The game doesn't revolve around those other things anymore.

---

Nerfing jobs is a much better way to balance. Because if you buff weaker jobs, you'd have to buff the game content as well as the game difficulty will become too easy if every job get a buff.

For example, recent SAM buff happened because XI became MNK fantasy XI, they happened to make delve2(especially yorcia)became too easy. If they just nerf MNK instead of buffing SAM it wouldn't have happen.

Also in a game with 22 jobs, job change system and simplistic battle system, I'm not sure if it's important to make all 22 job equally useful in raid while making them different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balloon

I was more referring to the enmity that their relic weaponskills generate, or lack there of. Tanking is only viable when rangers are part of the picture, they have Decoy shot too. In situations where tanking is imperative, there's very little options other than RNG.

---

Ah OK. I don't play ranger at all, my experience with it was just as a WHM. My memories of Aby are basically ; RNG uses Jishnu's Radiance, the NM races across the ground like its on rollerskates, the Ranger's HP drops like a dead bird, me and the other mages spam cures on him for a long time, and the NM hits him for enormous damage. I remember wishing he had higher evasion skill rank and heavier armor or something lol. But we probably didn't have the right strategy for RNG party or something. Our LS is mostly mage and pet jobs so idk much about RNG except trying to keep them alive lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rubicant82

As long as there is a Tank, and Healer, the other 4 jobs in the party should not matter and SHOULD be able to perform and clear content intended for parties of that size.
If there is a new inclination of the DEV team to balance things out then it should be there goal to see all jobs included in end game content.

However, I feel that much of this is fueled by what people have found to be the optimal build for beating content. Once it is beat, then beaten easily, that is what everyone wants to do. What is the easy way out? Oh it is sending in MNK, RNG, SAM to pummel the S**T out of the monster before it gets of the mega move that can/will end the run as a failure. This is a most unfortunate thing, but it is a thing none the less. I always try to have a job ready that I have to play in order to the latest content, though I true love is BLM and I never get to go anywhere on that unless it is old content (sad fact) so I would love to see changes but no nerfs. Buffing up the other DD classes so they can be on the same level of the cookie cutter DD flavor of the time.

---

Except you CAN clear the content with jobs from OP. You CAN clear zones like yorcia on THF, BLU, BLM and BST. The point isn't X job can't clear the content, but X job can't outparse SAM.

According to some ppl using BLM in pt, using a BLM in yorcia actually adds more dmg than using one extra SAM due to skillchain interruption. Not sure why you don't get invite, if I can find one I'd use it.