Dev Request- Divine Seal adjustment

well i dont find the suggestion wrong, i do think however other jobs need more help then whm in the healing department. Namely RDM and SCH respectivly. they get it decently done, but cant touch a really good whm (thats like 5% of the whms out there) at all. they have fallen behind, moreso RDM. This addjustment would give RDMs and SCHs the final nail in their healing coffin unless you throw some adjustemnts along to them.

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Originally Posted by Damane

well i dont find the suggestion wrong, i do think however other jobs need more help then whm in the healing department. Namely RDM and SCH respectivly. they get it decently done, but cant touch a really good whm (thats like 5% of the whms out there) at all. they have fallen behind, moreso RDM. This addjustment would give RDMs and SCHs the final nail in their healing coffin unless you throw some adjustemnts along to them.

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But rdm and sch would get access to the same JA, albeit at a lower potency. But it would make their jobs easier as well.

It would also give more reason to sub /whm. It's hard to justify sometimes with /sch giving full -na's and erase, and the ability to aoe them on a 2 min cd.

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Originally Posted by Underpanties

But rdm and sch would get access to the same JA, albeit at a lower potency. But it would make their jobs easier as well.

It would also give more reason to sub /whm. It's hard to justify sometimes with /sch giving full -na's and erase, and the ability to aoe them on a 2 min cd.

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the strenght of whm cureing doesnt come alone from afflatus solace and its cureskin, yes it helps (alot with empy body +2), but whm empy legs +2 are a constant fixed (or more) 50% conserve MP for any competent whm, slap curagas on top of that and a whm barely runs out of MP at all.

I totally agree that RDM could use (a lot of) adjustments for just about every aspect of their job... but SCH has MORE than their fair share of tools and spells. This adjustment would do nothing but help them anyways. Assuming a SCH is in a party just to heal, being able to DS curaga II on a 1 min timer would save them strats and fill in their biggest healing weakness. Besides, any non-yagrush WHM would be using DS mostly for AoE -na spells.
I also dont see how you can even compare SCH to WHM... Are you saying that SCH should be able to heal just as well as a WHM? because the list of things SCH can do is already really long. SCH is one of the reasons RDM has become so unattractive... SCH is so good at so many things that they stomp on the toes of most of the other mage jobs already.

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Originally Posted by Mikkel

I totally agree that RDM could use (a lot of) adjustments for just about every aspect of their job... but SCH has MORE than their fair share of tools and spells. This adjustment would do nothing but help them anyways. Assuming a SCH is in a party just to heal, being able to DS curaga II on a 1 min timer would save them strats and fill in their biggest healing weakness. Besides, any non-yagrush WHM would be using DS mostly for AoE -na spells.
I also dont see how you can even compare SCH to WHM... Are you saying that SCH should be able to heal just as well as a WHM? because the list of things SCH can do is already really long. SCH is one of the reasons RDM has become so unattractive... SCH is so good at so many things that they stomp on the toes of most of the other mage jobs already.

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I am not saying SCH is bad, but it could use some help in the healing department, it is grossly overlooked in the healing department by the majority of the playerbase, because it cant touch a good whm in that department. I am not saying it should be as good as whm on healing, but there should be some options to make SCH healing more viable. anything that requires huge amounts of bomb healing constantly will leave a sch fast withotu any MP as opposed to a good whm that can handle that easy with some curaga III and proper equipment (hint empy leg +2) and it costs them almost no MP, not to mention the cureskin that give them some air to breath. Again not saying SCH cant heal, it just cant come close on healing regarding anything remotly hard as opposed to whm. There shoulndt be only 1 healer choice, there should be 3 different to choose from. Same with Tanks at the moment we have 1 Tank choice as opposed to haveing 3. We need more job flexibility imho.

whm can do also alot of things schs can, you can even nuke nowadays with tier 1 nukes for 1k+ dmg per nuke (assuming /sch).

As for RDM... that is a total different story, the job lacks so many things, starting from the current magic skill ratings, to unique spells over to healing department etc.

I would be happy and fine for the divine seal adjustments if afflatus solace can be subed too for other jobs.

The issue is not SCH not being able to heal hard content... its the playerbase thinking that it cant. A good SCH is capable of healing in harder content, i've done it many times. I will admit i feel more comfortable healing on WHM, but i've played WHM for a much longer time than SCH and the SCH i use isnt my main character. If SCH is made any better at healing WHMs will end up be sitting in the corner with the RDMs. Why bring a WHM when you can have a more versatile job like SCH? When i compare jobs i usually consider what they're capable of w/o a subjob. Every job should be able to stand on its own to some degree. SCH is one of the few jobs in the game i actually consider well balanced. Which is one of the reasons why i proposed this adjustment- so WHMs could function more easily w/o subbing SCH. I dont know about other WHMs, but i feel like i have my hands tied if i sub anything other than SCH on WHM.

Edit- I would have no problem with Solace cureskin working as a SJ, but i want the regen enhancement from light arts in exchange.

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Originally Posted by Mikkel

The issue is not SCH not being able to heal hard content... its the playerbase thinking that it cant. A good SCH is capable of healing in harder content, i've done it many times. I will admit i feel more comfortable healing on WHM, but i've played WHM for a much longer time than SCH and the SCH i use isnt my main character. If SCH is made any better at healing WHMs will end up be sitting in the corner with the RDMs. Why bring a WHM when you can have a more versatile job like SCH? When i compare jobs i usually consider what they're capable of w/o a subjob. Every job should be able to stand on its own to some degree. SCH is one of the few jobs in the game i actually consider well balanced. Which is one of the reasons why i proposed this adjustment- so WHMs could function more easily w/o subbing SCH. I dont know about other WHMs, but i feel like i have my hands tied if i sub anything other than SCH on WHM.

Edit- I would have no problem with Solace cureskin working as a SJ, but i want the regen enhancement from light arts in exchange.

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I didnt say SCH cant heal, I actually did it myself, but when it comes to VD fights or anything that dishes out damage like nothign else, I am sure as hell going whm. It is infact much much easier to keep people alive on whm and not run out of MP then on SCH, when mainhealing. From my personal experience, SCH can heal good, but when it comes to hardcore stuff, it will barely cut it, especially if your melees are some PUGs that dont like to swap at times some gear out for more defensiv options or there are massive amounts of AoE damage taken, 4 Accessions Cure IVs in succession can hurt your MP pool very bad very fast.

I'm failing to follow you're argument... you're saying SCH can heal, but needs to be even better at it because-
-It cant heal as well as 5% of the WHMs out there
-It has trouble keeping up on VD content when your DPS and support are not doing their jobs.
-SCH doesnt have access to cureskin /whm
-there should be more healers than just WHM
is that right?

So you're basically saying SCH should be just as good at healing as WHM, even though SCH is far more versatile... By your posts i can tell you spend a lot of time on SCH and also must like the job so i understand that you would like it to be even better. But why should WHM exist if SCH is made to do the only thing WHM does well (just as well) AND be able to do a bunch of other stuff also? If only 5% of WHMs out there are out-healing you on SCH, how much of that gap do you want filled?
You running out of MP sounds like you dont have proper support and your DPS not using DT sets in VD content are not problems with SCH... those are problems with the people you're playing with. I guess i'm very lucky to have a LS with a full alliance worth of competent people, so i don't experience the same things when healing on SCH.
I agree there should be more jobs capable of healing outside of WHM AND SCH. I would love to see RDM revamped, and SMN given healing skill + some cure spells. Those are both jobs that i feel could use the extra attention.
As far as cureskin goes... its great, but not as great as you're making it sound. I honestly would not care if they made it usable from /whm. That would make subbing WHM even better (just like a divine seal recast reduction). The only problem with that adjustment (i feel) is Cureskin doesnt work with Curagas, but would work with SCHs AoE spamming cure 4s... once again giving SCH another advantage.
So we agree that SCH can heal. Can we agree that SCH doesnt actually NEED an adjustment? Its just something that would be nice... like the Divine seal recast reduction.

Edit- ALSO, these are the WHM forums... why dont you take your SCH complaints to the SCH forums? Your argument is about as relevant as a DNC hopping in here complaining they cant keep up with a WHM... its a different job with different strengths.

Divine seal should definitely have a shorter cooldown. 1 minute sounds good, 2 minutes is the absolutely longest cooldown it should be given. It should also give the next spell +25% fast cast to make up for the time it took to activate DS, considering time usually is of the essence when playing whm.

To make things fair, black mages should probably be given a similar change to their elemental seals. Increased accuracy for one spell every other minute (and reduced cast time) doesn't seem like it would be overpowered to me.

Neither JAs should be nerfed when subbing the jobs. It's not going to make SCH or RDM broken in terms of healing power, after all.

At the same time, enable Afflatus solace/misery when subbing whm as well, although perhaps make it a bit less potent. A 15% cureskin sounds good to me, considering whm can get it to what, 35% if they want?

Yeah, i agree that Elemental seal is another JA that should have its timer reduced. Should be like 3~5 min recast IMO. *can hear RDMs everywhere scream in frustration over Stymie becoming even less useful*