The struggle of Supporter Jobs other then BRD

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Originally Posted by Sapphire

There is apparently a maximum number of songs, though I admit I cannot recall what it is at the time.

However, with the way the game is coded at its most basic level there isn't a way they can make alliance wide songs (or spells). Spells are either, enemy, enemy AOE, self target only, party targetable, party AOE or "can target anyone." There is no "alliance only" setting.

It's why dancers can Curing Waltz cross-party but not Healing Waltz. Curing Waltz can be targeted on any PC in range. Healing is party only. There is no middle ground as has been explained by the devs is the past.

(Not saying there SHOULDN'T be an alliance level, just saying I highly doubt it will ever happen do to coding realities.)

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They could lower the amount of songs to 5 to prevent abuse, but a change like this would make people's lives easier, and there are situations where certain abilities extend past a party but include the party, whether it be the way Smn healing magic in WKR hits all PCs, or accessioned embrava hitting another party, they have the capability to make it to where there is an answer to such a request within their spaghetti code. And Healing waltz could easily hit people outside of party if they wanted it to, I believe you're completely remembering any dev explanation that may have happened.

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Originally Posted by Camate

It would be necessary to look into not only Healing Waltz, but also extending Erase to people outside of your party. In the case that we decide to extend the effects of Erase to people outside of your party, we will make it possible for Healing Waltz, too.

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There are also some other gems from that post I found that I thought bore humorous reflection.

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Originally Posted by Camate

We would need to completely remake the system as it was originally balanced to have a unified recast timer with limitations placed on the amount of TP consumed. If we removed that, the cure capabilities of the job would be greatly enhanced throwing the balance off between other healing magic. If we were to split the Waltz timers, we would have to raise the TP consumption as a trade-off.

Since Curing Waltz was designed to be different from Cure in the sense that it has advantages with short execution time and it is hard to interrupt, but on the flip side is difficult to use in quick succession, we do not have any plans to reduce the recast time further. Instead we wish for dancers to focus on specific tactics taking into account the levels of Waltz and use the most appropriate one for the situation.Similarly for Healing Waltz, since it is possible to address a large variety of status ailments covered by na-related spells and Erase, the recast timer was set to be somewhat long.

Since there is no cost for Chocobo Jig the effect is set to be only for the dancer.
In the event that we were to extend the effect to party members, there would be some room to explore this if there were TP consumption or some other trade-off.

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Sorry if it seems like I'm being mean to you Camate, I realize you're just the messenger for news the community doesn't agree with a good portion of the time. :(

Greetings,

The development team is currently exploring several ideas for geomancer adjustments and spells, but we are not at the point where we can talk about them in detail just yet. However, I can give you a broad overview of what they are aiming to accomplish. The team would like to focus on bringing out the uniqueness of geomancer as opposed to just making them similar to bard or corsair so that they are not just the same type of job. Geomancers have a nice advantage because they are able to spread enhancement effects that cannot be dispelled to a large amount of people and also their enfeeblements cannot be resisted by enemies. The team would like to focus on these unique aspects when making adjustments to differentiate geomancer as a support-type job.

Let the dang Luopon follow the mob and be harder to kill problem solved other than that add multiple luopons then I dance a jig...

I can respect maintaining Geomancer's unique form of buffing but something needs to be done about luopan survivability. If you compare it to other buff jobs, dispel is usually not that big of a overlooming threat (except on very specific situations like Adamantoises). Currently it would be akin to if a NM spammed dispelga every few seconds is how annoying it can be for Geomancer keeping their luopans alive. Dematerialize is nice but the recast is so long. I don't think the solution is the make them not take damage but it would be nice to have different ways to prevent and restore damage done. Maybe first increase their innate -damage taken and also lowering the recast of Life Cycle and Dematerialize considerably would be a good start.

I'd love to see a way to make Luopans follow around mobs or players. Having them completely immobile is just not very enjoyable of a unique quality. I'd love to see Geomancer get the spell Magnet. When cast, it creates a vortex which draws in nearby enemies and deals continuous damage for a short amount of time but will also pull your luopan towards it without dealing damage to it. It would be a pretty cool unique crowd control that works with Geomancer, trying to pull enemies back into something like Geo-Gravity. Which right now that spell is useless because of how long it takes to gain the movement speed down effect.

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Originally Posted by Rwolf

I can respect maintaining Geomancer's unique form of buffing but something needs to be done about luopan survivability. If you compare it to other buff jobs, dispel is usually not that big of a overlooming threat (except on very specific situations like Adamantoises). Currently it would be akin to if a NM spammed dispelga every few seconds is how annoying it can be for Geomancer keeping their luopans alive. Dematerialize is nice but the recast is so long. I don't think the solution is the make them not take damage but it would be nice to have different ways to prevent and restore damage done. Maybe first increase their innate -damage taken and also lowering the recast of Life Cycle and Dematerialize considerably would be a good start.

I'd love to see a way to make Luopans follow around mobs or players. Having them completely immobile is just not very enjoyable of a unique quality. I'd love to see Geomancer get the spell Magnet. When cast, it creates a vortex which draws in nearby enemies and deals continuous damage for a short amount of time but will also pull your luopan towards it without dealing damage to it. It would be a pretty cool unique crowd control that works with Geomancer, trying to pull enemies back into something like Geo-Gravity. Which right now that spell is useless because of how long it takes to gain the movement speed down effect.

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I can respect maintaining Geomancer's unique form of buffing and If you compare it to other buff jobs

there is problem. you sound like a hypocrite. S.e is looking at these as two different entities. Internalize this fact and then make a suggestion and maybe we will get some where.

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Originally Posted by Feary

I can respect maintaining Geomancer's unique form of buffing and If you compare it to other buff jobs

there is problem. you sound like a hypocrite. S.e is looking at these as two different entities. Internalize this fact and then make a suggestion and maybe we will get some where.

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Can't tell if trolling or actually serious... but I'll treat it as not trolling. I don't think you understand the definition of a hypocrite or hypocrisy. Respecting SE's decision to maintain Geomancer unique quality while realizing it's flaws are not opposites and do not contradict one another. What it sounds like is for some odd reason you are taking it extremely personal and feeling the need to label me as a person to get whatever point across. Also I made a very constructive suggestion, so I have no idea what you're even talking about. I'm not going to start a flame war with you so if you want to keep quoting me and calling me names, whatever gets your rocks off but at least do yourself a favor and actually read the constructive criticism context of what is written instead of writing it off as completely negative in which you need to swoop in and "white knight" SE from my comments.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is currently exploring several ideas for geomancer adjustments and spells, but we are not at the point where we can talk about them in detail just yet. However, I can give you a broad overview of what they are aiming to accomplish. The team would like to focus on bringing out the uniqueness of geomancer as opposed to just making them similar to bard or corsair so that they are not just the same type of job. Geomancers have a nice advantage because they are able to spread enhancement effects that cannot be dispelled to a large amount of people and also their enfeeblements cannot be resisted by enemies. The team would like to focus on these unique aspects when making adjustments to differentiate geomancer as a support-type job.

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We don't want Geomancers to be exactly like Bards or Corsairs, but they should be an acceptable replacement when you cannot find a Bard. Right now the only replacement for Bard is Corsair because they are not so underpowered in the buffing department like we are, but in reality Geomancers doesn't need that many adjustments to make them a suitable replacement for Bards, all they need is the capability of casting a second Geocolure spell, and reduced MP cost of geomancy. that would even out the playing field with Corsairs and it will allow us to accomplish our secondary role much easier. Conserve MP traits are not enough.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is currently exploring several ideas for geomancer adjustments and spells, but we are not at the point where we can talk about them in detail just yet. However, I can give you a broad overview of what they are aiming to accomplish. The team would like to focus on bringing out the uniqueness of geomancer as opposed to just making them similar to bard or corsair so that they are not just the same type of job. Geomancers have a nice advantage because they are able to spread enhancement effects that cannot be dispelled to a large amount of people and also their enfeeblements cannot be resisted by enemies. The team would like to focus on these unique aspects when making adjustments to differentiate geomancer as a support-type job.

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This was stated before, and I know the Dev team likes a different approach on GEO. But this doesnt change the fact that GEO suffers in 6 man partys tremendously because it lacks very importent potent buffs like Haste and Scherzo. Haste is one of the most potent buffs in FFXI, any supporter job lacking this is allready deemed worthless, this is also the reason why Corsair is less effectiv then BRD (albeit still ok). And the fact that luopans die on anything remotly hard every 5 sec from the AoE doesn help either. I am not saying to change GEO into BRD, but i would like to have at least the most important comparable tools compared to BRD to actually be able to compete with it.

It is a support job after all, but what is a support job worth it when it lacks the most potent buff (Haste) that really bumps up all the damage of the entire melee party.

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Originally Posted by Rwolf

Can't tell if trolling or actually serious... but I'll treat it as not trolling. I don't think you understand the definition of a hypocrite or hypocrisy. Respecting SE's decision to maintain Geomancer unique quality while realizing it's flaws are not opposites and do not contradict one another. What it sounds like is for some odd reason you are taking it extremely personal and feeling the need to label me as a person to get whatever point across. Also I made a very constructive suggestion, so I have no idea what you're even talking about. I'm not going to start a flame war with you so if you want to keep quoting me and calling me names, whatever gets your rocks off but at least do yourself a favor and actually read the constructive criticism context of what is written instead of writing it off as completely negative in which you need to swoop in and "white knight" SE from my comments.

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No, im not trolling. i think you dont understand which part i was calling you a hypocrite for.

how can say you respect and understand S.E P.O.V when they just said

"The team would like to focus on bringing out the uniqueness of geomancer as opposed to just making them similar to bard or corsair so that they are not just the same type of job."

then you immediatly start your reply with

"If you compare it to other buff jobs,"

i understand but...

seriously? are you trolling? lol

you dont understand or respect s.e p.o.v.


there is also a post where they explained, why they dont make certain these type of adjustments to geo.

namely, they want geo to have its own path that is not just based on its loupon. so making suggestions based on comparisons of other jobs wont get you anywhere.