You stay classy, FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Uh, I've been all over the world on shiva and never seen any of this kind of cheating.

Really, I can imagine certain reasons why people would quit, but cheating? Cmon, there is hardly any. (You do realize that they increased everybody's movement speed right.

This version update is actually one of the best in a long while for me, so its a shame that you've picked this time to throw in the towel, but hey, your choice.

(What the hell is there in Beaucedine that people would be willing to cheat for? And why the hell is it a problem now when I've never heard of anyone complaining about this prior to today?)

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Go to the coast in Beaucedine its the popular spot for people who fish because the fish there npc for a lot. They npc all the fish puts ton of gil in the economy

no problem, they'll just make the npc price worthless so that fishing becomes more useless :p

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Alhanelem, I'm happy to hear that Vana'Diel still has that sense of "shock and awe" to you, and that it is genuinely something you can still enjoy. For me; however, I just feel that I no longer have any adventures to intrigue me in Vana'Diel.

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If you're bored with it, just say you're bored. That's fine. You're projecting your feelings into other issues when the real fact of the matter is that you're just bored with it. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. So why wrap that up in a guise of ragequitting over cheaters?

Basically, the reasons you're suggesting now are not really the reasons you gave in your original post.

In general terms btw, it's best if you want to quit to just quit. Don't tell anybody about it, just move on. It kind drags other people down with you. whatever issue you have isn't something SE can simply 'fix," so saying why you're quitting doesn't really benefit anybody.

Probably is a good time to check out FFXIV, considering they're about a week away from updating to 2.1.

I got bored of XIV though, because endgame is nothing more than grinding Mythology tomes until you cap for the week.

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Originally Posted by detlef

I'm no gun expert, but wasn't the base damage of 119 Death Penalty pretty out of line with any other gun in the game? So out of line to the point where you would say that it was an obvious oversight?

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You would be correct. It was an immediately obvious gross overpowering of the weapon to anyone with a hint of brain power.

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Originally Posted by Carth

Probably is a good time to check out FFXIV, considering they're about a week away from updating to 2.1.

I got bored of XIV though, because endgame is nothing more than grinding Mythology tomes until you cap for the week.

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After playing (and enjoying mind you) FFXIV for about 2-3 months, I can safely say 2.1 offers nothing of interest... I'd say wait about a year and maybe they'll be off the "Once a week" Lockout crap so endgame is more than logging on every monday for 4-5 hours to finish capping all your weekly tasks then waiting til next monday.

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After playing (and enjoying mind you) FFXIV for about 2-3 months, I can safely say 2.1 offers nothing of interest...

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You can't safely say that until it comes out. Maybe try the content before you shoot it all down?

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Lockout crap so endgame is more than logging on every monday for 4-5 hours to finish capping all your weekly tasks then waiting til next monday.

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If the only thing you care about is loot, sure, once you have all the darklight for all the jobs and have all crafts to 50 with all the best gear for them and all the DoH's to 50 and all the best gear for those, and beaten Twintania, then it might be a "monday game." This "lockout crap" is no worse than Dynamis in its heyday or assault or salvage or the avatar quests etc. all of which have or had lockouts on them at some point. Abyssea has a lockout that eases over time as you progress in it.

There is more to do for most people than you can complete in one day unless you ultra hardcore, and I mean ULTRA hardcore.

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I don't think ff14 is a good game at all. Is just my imho, it lacks sophistication, and the core input system is not make me feel special. If I want to watch a movie I have some great DVD's <over there> but when I'm gaming I want more user-input and more user friendly game nodes than what 14 has got.

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*scratches head* If you liken FFXIV to watching a movie, then you never actually played it at all... and "core input system is not make me feel special" ... what? I'm not even sure what this means.

'I want more user-input and more user-friendly kinetic integer nodes than what 14 has got." I don't know what a "kinetic integer mode" is, but FFXIV has all the "user input" you could ever ask for. How far in the game did you play? You can't seriously play any of the endgame content in XIV and tell me it doesn't require enough user input from you.

Both XI and XIV are good games for different reasons, though it's difficult to compare a game that's been out for 11 years to a game that's been out for less than 4 months.

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which are not the same as what a lot of gamer kids today consider a "good game."

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You are not sure what I mean, but you had never heard of Beaudecine fishbots either until just now.

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I don't appreciate you taking stabs at me like this. I have never heard of Beaucadine fish bots because 1) I rarely visit that zone and 2) I have been away from the game for months and I don't keep track of how people cheat in a game that I'm not actively playing.
Next, I'm not just some "gamer kid." I'm 30 years old and I contribute to society. You may be older than me but that doesn't give you the right to talk down to me.

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Also I compare 2013 games with 1981 games, time is immaterial, I rate games on playability alone.

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You can't compare a real life game to a video game and have an accurate view of "playability." What makes a video game playable is a lot different than what makes a sport or other real life game playable.

Ever heard of comparing apples and oranges? That's what you're doing. You're comparing two different games that aren't even played with the same medium much less being in the same genre.

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Also how did you reply to my post before I actually posted it, by seven minutes.

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There is this feature called "Edit post." I chose to edit my post rather than make another one. It comes from FFXIV's forum having a cap on posts per day and thus people often get around it by editing one post.

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FFxi originally was high user input, the game didn't help you at all and was happy to see you die over nothing. FF14 is the opposite, User-input % is low, and the game is forgiving and will play itself if you nudge it and pewpew occasionally.

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This isn't true at all. You demonstrated to me with this statement that you haven't really played the game. Go fight the primals and run Bahamut's coil and tell me the user input % is low. The game does not "play itself," and doing nothing is the surest way to fail, unlike in xi where auto attacking is powerful enough to kill enemies in many cases. When I play Warrior in FFXI, I engage, use all my cooldowns when I have TP, use a weapon skill, and go to the next room and grab a cup of coffee. When I come back, my TP is back ready for another weapon skill. In FFXIV, I'm pressing buttons and giving commands at all times.

Also, "not helping you at all" and "happy to see you die over nothing" are not marks of good game design. While I don't advocate hand holding, giving the player no information is the surest way to lose that player. It took years before FFXI even had anything resembling a tutorial. It was one game where reading the manual sure wasn't optional, that much is for sure.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You can't safely say that until it comes out. Maybe try the content before you shoot it all down?

If the only thing you care about is loot, sure, once you have all the darklight for all the jobs and have all crafts to 50 with all the best gear for them and all the DoH's to 50 and all the best gear for those, and beaten Twintania, then it might be a "monday game." This "lockout crap" is no worse than Dynamis in its heyday or assault or salvage or the avatar quests etc. all of which have or had lockouts on them at some point. Abyssea has a lockout that eases over time as you progress in it.

There is more to do for most people than you can complete in one day unless you ultra hardcore, and I mean ULTRA hardcore.

*scratches head* If you liken FFXIV to watching a movie, then you never actually played it at all... and "core input system is not make me feel special" ... what? I'm not even sure what this means.

'I want more user-input and more user-friendly kinetic integer nodes than what 14 has got." I don't know what a "kinetic integer mode" is, but FFXIV has all the "user input" you could ever ask for. How far in the game did you play? You can't seriously play any of the endgame content in XIV and tell me it doesn't require enough user input from you.

Both XI and XIV are good games for different reasons, though it's difficult to compare a game that's been out for 11 years to a game that's been out for less than 4 months.

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Yet people with only 5 lvl 99 jobs complain about nothing to do in XI. They should have gotten all of the jobs to 99, all crafts maxed, all mythics/relics/emps for each job before passing judgment right? According to you.

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Yet people with only 5 lvl 99 jobs complain about nothing to do in XI. They should have gotten all of the jobs to 99, all crafts maxed, all mythics/relics/emps for each job before passing judgment right? According to you.

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You know what? Yes. Complaining about lack of things to do when you haven't done all the things is illogical.

Really the only reason anyone at all is in a position to complain about lack of things to do is because the game is way less grindy than FFXI, which from a gameplay standpoint is a good thing, even if it means the devs have less time to create new content before people finish the last content (which is the only reason lockouts exist in the first place in any MMO).

Also, FFXIV, yet to receive its first major content patch, has about as much content as FFXI did at its original launch in Japan (and with less bugs and issues), so they really aren't in a bad spot as long as they are able to deliver their content on schedule (we'd already have 2.1 by now but it was held up by the time that was needed to address the server / login issues)

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Playability was the prime-requisite of game reviewing in the 1980s, it was considered more important than graphics.

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And it still is. Any review source that doesn't proritize it isn't worth reading. But FFXIV has good gameplay, not just shiny graphics.

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In summary just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean other people are wrong about it. That was why I raised the fishbots as an example of this.

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And People have been fishbotting in that zone for years, so your few months away from the game wouldnt make a difference.

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Again, I was never exposed to it. I didn't do it myself, and nobody I ever played with talked about it. Why should I know about it then? You stop just short of calling me ignorant here even though I had legitimate reason not to know about it.

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> Even if they were different genres, I could still compare playability.

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You can't compare playability at any more than the most basic level of things like "do the controls work / are intuitive" and "is it fun?" The characteristics of a game with good playability in one genre are not all the same as those in another genre. The aspects of a good, playable puzzle game are very different from the aspects of a good, playable beat-em-up.

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In summary just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean other people are wrong about it.

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I called you wrong because you made statements about a game that demonstrated you had not played it (or had not played it enough). Like many games FFXIV is fairly simple as you get started, but becomes much more involved as you progress to later content. I understand some people like being hurled into a world without a clue and want to figure everything out on their own, but in my opinion, early on guidance and tutorials are vaulable in retaining a potential player.

I could not get into games like Minecraft, Terraria, and to a lesser extent Starbound because these games all basically drop you in the middle of a (randomly generated) world and don't even tell you the controls much less the basics of how to play. In Terraria my first time playing for instance the game started me right next to a cliff and before I could even figure out the controls some enemy pushed me over the edge and killed me. That to me is not good game design. The player should be given at least a basic sense of what a game is about prior to being thrust into something.

I managed to get into FFXI back when it came out, just barely. It took me a while to figure out all the controls, much less what to do, because the game gave little information to you except through a handful of NPCs in the cities who tell you the basics but you can't even easily identify them until you already know the stuff they're going to tell you. Eventually they improved these issues but let me tell you, quite a few friends of mine quit because they couldn't figure the game out (this was back when it was new).

TL;DR, you (allegedly) quit XIV because it was holding your hand at the beginning. You implied to me you hadn't played the game much because you said the game has a low input % which I know not to be true because there are many encounters in the game which require contstant, intelligent control of your character to survive.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You know what? Yes. Complaining about lack of things to do when you haven't done all the things is illogical.

Really the only reason anyone at all is in a position to complain about lack of things to do is because the game is way less grindy than FFXI, which from a gameplay standpoint is a good thing, even if it means the devs have less time to create new content before people finish the last content (which is the only reason lockouts exist in the first place in any MMO).

Also, FFXIV, yet to receive its first major content patch, has about as much content as FFXI did at its original launch in Japan (and with less bugs and issues), so they really aren't in a bad spot as long as they are able to deliver their content on schedule (we'd already have 2.1 by now but it was held up by the time that was needed to address the server / login issues)

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A game, specifically an MMO is meant to appeal to many different types of players, with content for each to experience. a single person in an MMO is not expected to experience every instance of content as its expected that some may not appeal to them, such as crafting, leveling different jobs, and so forth. Most MMO companies know this and some even say this openly. To expect a person to go out of their way to participate in content they actively distaste, like being a Healer, or leveling Crafts, or doing H.E.L.M activities just to have "more content" is the illogical assumption to me.

This is why they plan content for each type accordingly. Offering content for Crafting folk, content for the gatheres, content for party players, big and small, and content for soloers and so forth. They offer content for all types of players because they know all types of players exist in their game, no one but the players themselves seem to be oblivious or just foolhardy enough to believe every single MMO player should be for to experience every single content clearly designed for specific players in mind before they can claim "Lack of content".

Which again is what I would call the illogical assessment.

A game can have a lack of content well without experience every single nook and cranny, cause content thats unbelievably boring and infuriating is well and out of reach of what an MMO, or all games, are trying to achieve... being enjoyable. Therefor if you can roll with the logic train here a moment, expecting a player to experience content that is boring and unenjoyable to them is not the intended goal, therefor the content is null for said type of player, whoever they may be.

But thats all really besides the point as frankly none of it defends the fact once a week lockouts suck in every way and in the end hurt the "Casual" player base more then the hardcore because the further you lag behind the harder its going to be to catch up in the long run. Especially such with Item levels involved.

Anywho I know i might as well be yelling at a wall because no one on the internet changes their mind, but its fun.