FFXI needs some more new content then just delve

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daemon

The issue is, FFXI when it was first released didn't give players the ability to rush level to 99 in less than half a day. You actually had to "earn" your levels and learn how to play the job. You also had to learn team work. And making friends with people was more personal than now because the people you met through exp parties were the ones you would later do quests, missions, help each other get things done and be ready to exp again the next day. You would have to spend hours a day with either the same people around your level skilling up, learning to skillchain, magic burst, Ect or new groups but the point is 6 man party was much more personal than hi & goodbye 18 man party quick rush to 99.

When Abbysea, GoV was released, it taught players to be lazy, it took away the "learn how to play the job as a team" aspect.
Because back then being a team made a difference unlike today everyone jump in gangbang stuff and kill quick without true strategy or skill.

Temp items in events today make players not depend on mages so much.

Also you actually had to utilize each jobs ability to accomplish wins. Healers had to learn how to conserve mp with heals and not cast curaga and gain hate putting the party at risk.

DD who took too much damage had to learn not to be a one man show otherwise mages would burn mp too fast putting party at risk.

You only had 6 people to choose from so players had to choose wisely.

Crafting was very useful during parties back then, mages would make melon juices for refresh.

Details such as these is what made ffxi fun.
There was no such thing as quick questing, you actually had to dedicate time with friends or others to get things done. Not run in solo by yourself at 99.

HNM was so fun back then. A reason why several LS existed but no longer today.

Sadly we are at a time where people fc their way to 99 in less than 6 hours, spoiled by Abby temp items and atmas that players no longer put effort to details such as buying food and meds. (not saying all but a good majority)

Because people level to 99 so fast, the majority of gear in AH became irrelevant.
Most people dual box characters so you are not getting 100% of a players ability but 50% controlling each character.

Familiar? Now that delve came out, a good majority of gear is now irrelevant..

The way FFXI is today compared to back then, is built to let you rush through things that you are suppose to take time and enjoy.

---

I have to strongly disagree with some parts of this sentiment. Prior to Abyssea, a lot of people were hard-pressed to even find parties if they were leveling a non-bandwagon job or a job not given the BG seal of approval (see: BST, BLM [post-ToAU], SMN, PUP, DRG, etc.). Forget about making parties if there weren't any tanks or healers around your level and Altana help you if someone raises a stink about not having a Bard--the less said about this, the better. I'd dare to say Abyssea saved the game from a premature death due to rampant job discrimination and lazy-mindedness.

HNMs were only fun if you had the fastest bot program and knew the right behinds to kiss. HNM shells were about as close to resembling Chicago politics as any MMO could imagine. The corruption and drama in most HNMLS would rival most City Council sessions on a good day.

I will agree that the pace of leveling doesn't allow players to get to know their jobs as deeply on the road to 99 but it's misguided to lay blame at the feet of FoV and GoV. Low-level parties go much faster with these and allow less preoccupation with low-level gear. They also give players something to do while looking for a party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hayward

I have to strongly disagree with some parts of this sentiment. Prior to Abyssea, a lot of people were hard-pressed to even find parties if they were leveling a non-bandwagon job or a job not given the BG seal of approval (see: BST, BLM [post-ToAU], SMN, PUP, DRG, etc.). Forget about making parties if there weren't any tanks or healers around your level and Altana help you if someone raises a stink about not having a Bard--the less said about this, the better. I'd dare to say Abyssea saved the game from a premature death due to rampant job discrimination and lazy-mindedness.

HNMs were only fun if you had the fastest bot program and knew the right behinds to kiss. HNM shells were about as close to resembling Chicago politics as any MMO could imagine. The corruption and drama in most HNMLS would rival most City Council sessions on a good day.


I will agree that the pace of leveling doesn't allow players to get to know their jobs as deeply on the road to 99 but it's misguided to lay blame at the feet of FoV and GoV. Low-level parties go much faster with these and allow less preoccupation with low-level gear. They also give players something to do while looking for a party.

---

Yes I understand people had a hard time finding parties, you actually had to lead your own to succeed, but then that's why they added level sync so you could party anywhere at any level. So I still stick with my opinion that Abbysea pretty much ruined the game by only giving people a reason to stay longer than quit allowing people to rush play to the end. Temp items taught people not to depend on mages anymore, no need for refresh when u got atmas, elixirs.

Believe me, the day someone says they don't need your job, that's exactly what happened when these new changes were added. Bye bye Redmage, no more bard for refresh and 6 man parties having one of the 2 or both jobs in exp party was a must.

Back in the day you actually had to move to other maps once your level exceeded the mobs level where you were leveling at. Not just exp in 2 areas. And like I said, who needs most of the gear in ah when you can buy level 1/10/30/99 gear instead making several of the synthesis for crafts useless. And we know there's people who don't even do that, show up in Abby totally naked.

Which btw is also why everytime you go to AH wanting to buy something, most of the time it's not there.

How many people FC their way to 99? Don't even skill up or actually play the job, just learn after 99 what should have been learned throughout the lower levels.

Heck most parties today u are parting with 1 person most likely controlling 1-5 characters and probably don't even know it.

Then at 99 many people who come to ffxi new barely have a lot of friends or know alot of people willing to help so the game teaches many to level up their own dual box or level a pet job so you can solo your own stuff.

GoV taught people to start the 18 man alliance and Zerg mobs for exp pages. No more leveling in tahrongi, bubu, maze of shakarami, valkurm dunes, etc.
Even some people don't even bother leveling up in crawlers nest anymore-
Some people can level to 50 going GoV pages in just a few hours.

This is the reason Skillchain/Magic Burst low man parties were destroyed. Why even put any effort when everyone can just gangbang stuff to meet page quota for exp? No more 6 man parties where you actually learn real skills.
Again I still stick to my opinion that GoV is another reason FFXI was ruined.


From level 1-30 players are suppose to be learning the job, skilling up, mages are suppose to learn the support aspect of a low man party and everyone learns how to control hate as a team.

My point was SE made way too many things easy not only allowing people to level super fast, but breeze through missions, quests, that its hard to enjoy the game once you level all the jobs you want, speed course through all missions, and now with delve, what more of the game can u really enjoy when REM and several other content before adoulin is now pretty much irrelevant when Delve gears pretty much surpass all other stuff.

The way FFXI is now is like playing a game on a private server where there's not a lot of people so they make it way too easy so you can skip the important stuff and rush to max level just so you can participate in activities with rest of the people.

We don't actually "earn" our levels and learn our jobs anymore. We go in Zerg gangbang stuff til our level reaches 99. This type of laziness promotes even more laziness and that's why you see alot of people purposely AFK, fall asleep in hopes of leeching til someone takes notice of their afkness.

This is the first real game I've ever saw in my life that give people the ability to reach 99 in less than 6 hours. Back in the day some people took over a year just to reach 75.

There was a time when Everyone depended on each so much that you actually had to find the right party or people you click with, learn each others play style, make a ton of mistakes but you actually learned how to be better at your job and work as a team.

Now a lot of players are selfgain or self independent so no need to party with others when they can do things themselves, anyone can push a few macros and hit ws. The real fun was doing skillchain / magic burst. Here is where players learned from each other, not just your gear but the person you are skillchaining with had to have good gear for both to create a beautiful amount of dmg. It motivated people to work on their equipment/ skill up because your moment in the spotlight to show off your dmg was in exp parties. It also better prepared people to take on hard bosses.

Where as now lol it's all about 18 man party, proc and Zerg.

Who needs REM or VW gear when you can go straight to delve as a mage , earn plasms, ki and then buy yourself the most powerful items in game without gil?

There are so many things wrong with your posts I'm not even going to bother trying to explain it.

I will say you either never really played before Abyssea or you have a very severe case of rose-colored glasses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slaxx

There are so many things wrong with your posts I'm not even going to bother trying to explain it.

I will say you either never really played before Abyssea or you have a very severe case of rose-colored glasses.

---

Tell me what's wrong with my post?

That no one could level up in sync parties?
That I'm wrong for saying people can level to 99 in less than 6 hours?

BTW I'm not against new content, just saying certain flaws like FC to 99 or joining Abby party for 6 hours is what ruined the game.

GoV would have been better if it was strict to 6 man party and not 18, then maybe people would team up beyond gusgen mines since there are limited mobs in that 1 camp.

Then maybe skillchain / magic burst would still exist.

Temp items in Abby and VW, who needs melon pie and juices anymore? And do you really see anyone say we need bard or redmage to refresh the mages??

What about crafted armors, weapons? Who needs to buy a good majority of the gear in AH anymore when you won't even stay at the req level long? I see most people wear Pearle or Pink armor.

The other day I saw a team of RMT all playing summoner all wearing Pluvialle.

I don't know about your server but on mine atleast 1 person in every VW party has a dual box character and most people don't even know it. A few weeks ago I joined a GoV party, half the members were AFK and someone was there PLing the little amount of people who were there active, then after exping 30 minutes this PL person warps 5 other people(his dualbox characters) that were in party and we had to disband.

Self gain- I wonder how many people playing delve are willing to go back and help those who are shouting in jeuno for help getting atmas, ZB wins, +2s? Level limit break? CoP missions?

Self Independent - Because people have a hard time finding people to help with quest missions, REM trials, etc.. How many people level bst and make dual box character to do it solo?

And several people I know have BST to solo most if not all of their seals, +2s
also i know alot of people who have dual box characters for soloing Relic weapon quest, Emp trials..

I just spent half a year doing VW climbs, Access to Providence watcher and less than 1 week before delve release I finally got Plenitas Virgas.

On the first day Delve was released, I got Ki, 30k plasms and bought soothsayer staff, now my Plenitas Virga is just rotting in my storage.

Again I'm not against new content, but allowing people to rush through the game and skip a great detail of things is why I said SE made the game too easy.

I see so many people talking about Skirmish and how it was released only 1 month and delve killed it.

Players abusing the system, it's flaws like these that allow people to play the game too fast and this is one of the few reasons why people get bored and want new content.

Nobody can level to 99 in 6 hours. That is complete bullshit and everyone knows it. Please claim that it's just hyperbole but the reality is from level 30 - 99 is going to take somewhere between 8 and 12 hours, at best. Add in roughly 4- 6 hours for 1 - 30 and you're looking at between 12-18 hours, of non-stop xp'ing to get to 99 from scratch. It can be done in one day if you're dedicated to getting it done or pay for a FC but 6 hours is just completely wrong.

Try being a BLM in a pre-abyssea level sync party and see how wanted you are. Or a BST. Or SMN. Or PUP. The list goes on. Level sync helped the problem of leveling "non-optimal jobs" it did not make it go away.

If you are doing GoV in Gusgen until 70 - 75 then you're doing it wrong. When I did it I proceeded to The Crawler's Nest and the Oubliette before I went to abyssea. The xp from Gusgen pages is crap once you get past 25.

Skillchain/magic burst? I see skillchains all the time in delve. Accidental yes but still happening. The reason magic bursts don't happen is because BLMs are tied to a limited MP pool that will always limit the efficiency of a party. SC/MB died a long time before Abyssea was reeleased.

Realistically how many people were using food in XP parties ever? I very rarely saw it and I'm guessing that is pretty common.

You can't wear Perle/Aurore until 78. Up until then if people want to contribute they have to wear something else, often crafted armor. Some people always showed up to experience parties in gimp gear. That hasn't changed.

Just because you say they were RMT doesn't make it so. You are making an assumption based on what you have seen, no actual proof.

There have always been PLers and people that AFK during parties. This is not new in the post abyssea era.

My linkshell has recently taken in a couple new/returning players. We mostly concentrate on Delve but they are still getting the low level content they need done.

So being self-sufficient is a problem? It seems like the solution to a problem to me.

Just because you started doing VW 18 months after it started doesn't mean everyone did. I still see the occasional groups doing climbs. Groups that are able to do them far easier now with higher level gear. If you just want the rewards you can go that route as well, you don'y need the progression to get the rewards.

There is no chance that on the first day of Delve release you got wins AND 30k plasm to get a weapon. That is a flat out lie. If you were the kind of player that was capable of that you wouldn't be here bitching about this kind of nonsense.



You also brought up earlier that people level to 99 too fast to learn how to play there jobs. This is another complete load. No job in the game plays the same in an experience party as it does in endgame. Getting to 99 is the road, not the destination.

If you are only level 55 and have never actually played to 99 to get to the real meat of the game then you don't know what you're talking about. If you do have a 99 and are posting from an alt account, quit trolling. these issues have been beaten to death and the vast majority of players have gotten over it and moved on. I suggest you do the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slaxx

Nobody can level to 99 in 6 hours. That is complete bullshit and everyone knows it. Please claim that it's just hyperbole but the reality is from level 30 - 99 is going to take somewhere between 8 and 12 hours, at best. Add in roughly 4- 6 hours for 1 - 30 and you're looking at between 12-18 hours, of non-stop xp'ing to get to 99 from scratch. It can be done in one day if you're dedicated to getting it done or pay for a FC but 6 hours is just completely wrong.

Try being a BLM in a pre-abyssea level sync party and see how wanted you are. Or a BST. Or SMN. Or PUP. The list goes on. Level sync helped the problem of leveling "non-optimal jobs" it did not make it go away.

If you are doing GoV in Gusgen until 70 - 75 then you're doing it wrong. When I did it I proceeded to The Crawler's Nest and the Oubliette before I went to abyssea. The xp from Gusgen pages is crap once you get past 25.

Skillchain/magic burst? I see skillchains all the time in delve. Accidental yes but still happening. The reason magic bursts don't happen is because BLMs are tied to a limited MP pool that will always limit the efficiency of a party. SC/MB died a long time before Abyssea was reeleased.

Realistically how many people were using food in XP parties ever? I very rarely saw it and I'm guessing that is pretty common.

You can't wear Perle/Aurore until 78. Up until then if people want to contribute they have to wear something else, often crafted armor. Some people always showed up to experience parties in gimp gear. That hasn't changed.

Just because you say they were RMT doesn't make it so. You are making an assumption based on what you have seen, no actual proof.

There have always been PLers and people that AFK during parties. This is not new in the post abyssea era.

My linkshell has recently taken in a couple new/returning players. We mostly concentrate on Delve but they are still getting the low level content they need done.

So being self-sufficient is a problem? It seems like the solution to a problem to me.

Just because you started doing VW 18 months after it started doesn't mean everyone did. I still see the occasional groups doing climbs. Groups that are able to do them far easier now with higher level gear. If you just want the rewards you can go that route as well, you don'y need the progression to get the rewards.

There is no chance that on the first day of Delve release you got wins AND 30k plasm to get a weapon. That is a flat out lie. If you were the kind of player that was capable of that you wouldn't be here bitching about this kind of nonsense.



You also brought up earlier that people level to 99 too fast to learn how to play there jobs. This is another complete load. No job in the game plays the same in an experience party as it does in endgame. Getting to 99 is the road, not the destination.

If you are only level 55 and have never actually played to 99 to get to the real meat of the game then you don't know what you're talking about. If you do have a 99 and are posting from an alt account, quit trolling. these issues have been beaten to death and the vast majority of players have gotten over it and moved on. I suggest you do the same.

---

Don't tell me it's complete BS about leveling to 99 in 6 hours at Abby. Once you hit 30 you can join to be the keyer. From exp from blue chests to gaining 500+ exp per kill its possible. Especially when you have BLM who can Ja spell mobs.

I never joined FC party but I've leveled several characters this way to 99 in 6 hours.

With Delve gear people are one shorting worms in Abby, faster kills, faster progress.


Well when you see people names like djffsfgyygd in a group all wearing the same exact gear, all the same job...

Bullshit. Your clear lack of understanding on how this game works pretty much invalidates any point you try to make. Troll harder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slaxx

Bullshit. Your clear lack of understanding on how this game works pretty much invalidates any point you try to make. Troll harder.

---

Why don't u troll harder?? Obviously you don't nothing.

I don't come here to complain, I came here to answer the original post my point of view on opinion.

Now whose the one trolling??

And why did SE make adjustment to delve? Because people were defeating it too fast duh. Some parties are making 5k-9k plasms.. It's not impossible.

You enter abyssea at level 30 and get 500+ xp from your first kill? Wrong. If you knew anything about what your talking about you'd know you get NOTHING for quite some time. Once you build lights and start to get experience it will still take quite a while to get to the cap for the level you're currently at (protip: that's below 500 for a while). Sure that 1250 from blue chests is nice but they don't drop every 10 seconds.

Last week i went to abyssea to get a couple merits on a 99 job. I made 400k experience in just about 2 hours (which obviously includes leaving to dump merits). As a level 30 coming in to key/leech you won't get anywhere near that average for the first few hours you are there.

You don't know what you are talking about. At this point you just look like a fool. If you had backed down and admitted that your original statement was hyperbole then maybe we could have a conversation.

Note: you also addressed none of my other points, some of which are certainly debatable. You chose to argue against me on something that anyone who has actually tried to burn as fast as possible knows is wrong. My personal record is 48 hours from job unlock to 99. It took me another 5.5 hours to cap skills. I have every job at 99, would i play most of them, hell no. My gear is sub-par and i don't know enough about the job to play effectively, BUT, I also wouldn't have learned that in an xp party. I can read, do research, and learn.

Sorry you did address the RMT issue. You are still making an assumption. I'm not saying your assumption is baseless (or wrong for that matter) but it is still an assumption with no actual proof to back it up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slaxx

You enter abyssea at level 30 and get 500+ xp from your first kill? Wrong. If you knew anything about what your talking about you'd know you get NOTHING for quite some time. Once you build lights and start to get experience it will still take quite a while to get to the cap for the level you're currently at (protip: that's below 500 for a while). Sure that 1250 from blue chests is nice but they don't drop every 10 seconds.

Last week i went to abyssea to get a couple merits on a 99 job. I made 400k experience in just about 2 hours (which obviously includes leaving to dump merits). As a level 30 coming in to key/leech you won't get anywhere near that average for the first few hours you are there.

You don't know what you are talking about. At this point you just look like a fool. If you had backed down and admitted that your original statement was hyperbole then maybe we could have a conversation.

Note: you also addressed none of my other points, some of which are certainly debatable. You chose to argue against me on something that anyone who has actually tried to burn as fast as possible knows is wrong. My personal record is 48 hours from job unlock to 99. It took me another 5.5 hours to cap skills. I have every job at 99, would i play most of them, hell no. My gear is sub-par and i don't know enough about the job to play effectively, BUT, I also wouldn't have learned that in an xp party. I can read, do research, and learn.

Sorry you did address the RMT issue. You are still making an assumption. I'm not saying your assumption is baseless (or wrong for that matter) but it is still an assumption with no actual proof to back it up.

---

Oh like it takes all day to raise lights-