Impossible to Gauge - Starting PUP NOW?

I'm almost at lvl 50 on my pup and I can tell you I have had loads of fun in both soloing and partying (IE not abyssea) and I have one piece of advice for you if you decide to start pup, get Buffoon's collar ASAP. I'm serious it will work wonders for you, make sure to macro it in on all manuevers and enjoy cuz pup is a fun job and can get even more fun as you lvl up.

mrkyleonline, I'm someone that had the hard road of lolpup several years ago, and I must say it's my most favorite job out of all my jobs. I leveled pup for Salvage until they nerfed it (Pouts), and thats when PUP became unwanted. You will find a hard road to level it, and I'm not only talking gil for the gear and attachments, but the stigma of lolpup. Our major down side is the master (to put it bluntly) stinks. We have B+ hand to hand, but our acc and damage stinks compared to other DD jobs. I was parsed once so I know this for a fact...On colibri in Bhaflau Thickets using the RNG frame and head. No we could not out damage a real RNG, and matter of fact, between me and my automation, we came in last, and only above the mages. LOL In Dyna, I was able to take hate off of the tanks a few times, but I still faced the lack of Acc problem and used a ton of gil on Sole Sushi to off set the problem. But I still can not beat the fact that I have my own personal WHM (With some recast draw backs), BLM, and even RNG. There was several times my automation saved the party because it was in DD mode, something go wrong (Normally a major link), the healer dies, and the party is about to become toast. I quickly changed my Automation to WHM with a few attachments, and saved the party. The universal way the automation can be (to me) makes it invaluable. At any given time you can go from DD to Healer to Nuker all with in 30 seconds or less. No other job can even do that. Not even BLU because once they change their spells they have that minute cool down before they can cast. I still deal with the lolpup stuff, and what makes me cry the most is seeing some noob pup that burned their job to 90 in junky gear that does not even have a single clue what the job can truely do. Those are the ones that make us look bad and keeps us in the LOLPUP spot.

So let me give you some job advice. Your stats go hand and hand with overload. Example: Ice manuver is INT based. If you put one up, your automation gets INT....But your INT will determine how many you can put up before overload. Lower the int, the more likely you will overload. BLM food can off set some of this like Cream Puffs. Another thing, your atmas you use in Abyssea does effect your Automation. When I know I'm going to be using a mage automation, I will use my BLM atmas like MM, Despot, and so on....Or if I use my DD frames, I use RR. Good subjobs to have for PUP is /war, /dnc, and /nin. You can main heal a party with PUP but not advisable. Long recast times can cause problems, but if you get good at it, it's a good way to get into parties instead of soloing. And lastly, expect to solo a lot. The "lolpup" will keep you out of parties. Sad but true. But on the positive side, soloing is the best way to really learn about the job. I was tanking in Campaign and people followed me to the next mob. Though it does take longer to solo a mob down, you really learn what the job can do.

So to sum it up....This job is great in my opinion....and I think you should give it a try.

To the OP, I think that, you should level PUP if you want to. I decided to level pup as my main job because, at the time, there weren't many around, the thought of being able to change in minutes between RNG, WHM, RDM and BLM and Attack in an instant was the major attraction for me. And now, I decided to level MNK (now at Lv90) and thanks to all the hard-work and time I've put into PUP skilling up guard, H2H (with max merit) and interchangeable gears, i play both jobs now with delight! When it comes to being able to start Lv55 Pts as PUP, you will LOVE LOVE LOVE! it.. xD Back when Lv55 Colibri PT was the s**t, I used to form PTs with 2 PUPs (me being one of them) as main healer (via WHM heads) and just fill the rest of the places with RNG, or Pole-users :)... I still don't have the Pirate quest attachment from the '??? Box' but it hasn't made me a worse PUP. I hope you have chosen your hearts decision, not what others have said. Each job is individual and has its highs and lows, but with PUP you know you will always be able to keep active! :D Good luck!

Just a note about the :

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I was parsed once so I know this for a fact...On colibri in Bhaflau Thickets using the RNG frame and head. No we could not out damage a real RNG, and matter of fact, between me and my automation, we came in last, and only above the mages"

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Its not 100% true. I pt a lot with rng on colibri and i saw that they didnt care to use a WS or a ja which deal dmg (like Barrage) at the end of the life of a mob, while other DD hold their tp not waste them on a almost dead mob.

I'm not saying that RNG doesnt win, but i'm saying that the parse doesnt show the difference of dmg between this 2 jobs for this reason.

Also it's a bit wrong to say that pup is not a good DD compared to other (often when i read you, i read something like "pup is not bad but inferior to a real dd". In fact, the maton only is inferior. With the master its not the same story).

To give you an idea, look some parse i had :

(lev 80, outside abyssea on a dynamis run, dunes, before tactical switch and it was with lolvaloredge)

http://achaab77.free.fr/lolpup.gif

setup : BLM = Anamay, Franzrobot, Manti, Yurameshi
WHM = Carnifax, Krumpet, Nari, Singaporean
BRD = Carnera (Gjallarhorn), Aena, Ocram, Tarstark
THF = Katzaz (Mandau), Reikyu, Corinthian, Ryp, Waine (Batardeau)
RNG = Remmi
PLD = Bberdock (aegis), Persimonious
RDM = Infection, Caridwen
WAR = Mysteri (Bravura), Tuvae, Supernovas
SAM = Eilee (Amanomurakumo), Ephraim (Amanomurakumo), Calta, Oneofthem (Amanomurakumo), Rellz
DRG = Pyroden (not sure it was him)
PUP = Me (automaton = Schatzi), Selka (automaton = pamama)

Like you can see, the top DD was a SAM with a Amanomurakumo (10.78%), then a sam w/o relic (10.32%), then me as pup (me + my auto = 7.45%).
So i pwnd SAMs with relic (and usukane), a WAR with a Bravura and THFs with Mandau/batardeau (w/o count the DD w/o relic) and i didnt have an exceptional gear.


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An other parse in abyssea (lev 80)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/Meoryu/parse.jpg

Master : Meowryu (/nin)
Automaton : Shoki


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And its a lot more powerfull now with all atma/cruors buff that we can have (and i dont talk about the Burattinaios lol, at least 10 tp per tick for your maton, even outside abyssea)

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Of course pup is not the perfect DD you can use in every situation but there is no shame to use it, if you have enough time to learn the job


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2-3 other things i desagree : Of course, you dont have to get all attachments lev 1, but if you can, do it ! You cant imagine how strong is pup even at low level because you can have a capped haste, a hax DA rate, a hax critical rate, ...
It cost me 6 M when i started, it's really expenssive but i dont regret it, and you keep your attachments for ever so it's not lost.

Also pup can solo yes, but its really a GOOD dd in a pt. The main problem is that until the lev 60ish (outside abyssea i mean) you automaton is too strong, so it will tank a lot. That mean it will die if you dont get enough oils to cure it. It's a bit less true now since they added Deus Ex Automata but you still have to get enough oil, or you will waste your dd potential.

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Originally Posted by vyhakeyo

I was tanking in Campaign and people followed me to the next mob. Though it does take longer to solo a mob down, you really learn what the job can do.

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Same here, tanking as PUP in campaign, especially as mithra with a mithra whm as a wife keeping you alive, is really fun. What I did for good experience was use a daedalus wing, grab another (before abyssea/cap 75 breakable btw) and and spammed wss to grab hate, then voked the mob every now and then while spamming wss as much as possible. Even had fun stealing hate off of PLDs that way.

Oh, one tip, if you want to do more damage to , try vampriric claws, it's a h2h weapon where your non wss become piercing instead of blunt.

And if my wife wasn't available, I would just use the whm automaton and keep atleast 1 light maneuver up, because mithra PUPs, when the rare event of getting hit happens, your HP drops fast, but that whm automaton with good magic skill heals ALOT of HP. (Light Maneuver, Water Maneuver, Dark Maneuver for Refresh)

why a water maneuver ? a ice should be better to recast faster.

For that i know, a water maneuver is only good if you are in a pt to make your automaton cast a na spell (and you dont need to have a water maneuver to do that if you are alone)

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Originally Posted by KorPoni

Oh, one tip, if you want to do more damage to , try vampriric claws, it's a h2h weapon where your non wss become piercing instead of blunt.

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Vampiric Claws are slashing damage. Also I'm confused as to why you would want to use those on anything that isn't immune to blunt damage.

Like any job, Pup has its ups and downs. The big down for most aspiring pups is the upfront $ outlay for the job, there is no question but this is the most expensive job to start if you want to be at all effective. However, if it is not your 1st job up the ladder there is some relief as many of the better attachments can be farmed from Hilltroll Puppetmasters, especially if you or a friend can bring a 90 thief for the TH. The gil they drop while acquiring the attachments (and the surplus attachments) can provide the $ to pay for those you have to get from the rat.

The next big down is that every 10 levels until 50 you need to stop to get a new frame or head, and you need stuff to get them (which is not always available considering the shape the AH is currently in). You can wait, but at the current skill-up rates (especially if you solo) it is quite possible to keep all your Auto's skills at cap, if you have the frame to use the skill, and you stay away from just leeching in Abyssea. That skill pays off big-time, too.

Changing Autos-especially in the field-can take awhile, about the same as a blue mage setting spells. It's annoying, but SE is supposedly working on it, we'll see.

Your melee defensive abilities are guard and evasion, but guard/parry suck for everybody, so don't let that stop you...

None of the above is meant to discourage you from choosing pup, it's just something you should factor in to your decision.

The ups are good to note. Most important, once you have an attachment you never need another one, so that upfront outlay for Scope is a 1 and done. Again, you'll be updating your attachments as you level as you can find them (everything is scarce on AH, not just pup items, so don't let the AH put you off).

Your gear: this is a mixed blessing. Generally, your gear will suck (you are expected to melee like a monk... in mage gear). The good thing is mages generally don't have to upgrade gear as often as other jobs-in fact, there really isn't that much available to upgrade to. Therefore, the expense to play your part is not as great as alot of other jobs. Your weapons choice is quite limited, too and the gains from upgrading every chance you DO get really aren't that profound, meaning you can skip alot of them. 50+ you are in good shape for gear (other than weaps, which are hard to find). Your AF gear is not the best at its levels, but it all works and is enough for a decent player considering you are going to just power through your 50-75 levels these days anyways. Relic is the same, not uber, but all functional. The add-on scenario gear can be godly if you make the right choices, and your AF3 gear is awesome. Your battle echelon gear is a good stop-gap set to tide you through to your AF3 +2 set. There is a good bit of utility in conquest, assault, salvage and limbus gear too if you have the points or a group to get it.

In my opinion, pup also has the widest choice of viable sub choices. In fact, the mage gear almost encourages you to choose mage subs, but you can /nin, /dnc, /thf or /mnk without fear of another pup laughing at you since they all can work. Really, only the other pet jobs, /brd and /cor are generally out, just as they tend to be for almost every other job, but even they can see some situational use.

Your auto is the muscle of your combo, but they don't pull nearly the hate of the jobs they mimic. They don't use consumables (other than automaton oil), so you have a ranger that never needs ammo as an example. They skill up amazingly fast now, so much of the former grind of the job is gone; the benefits of those skills are generally immediately apparent, too. If you put up the $ at the front end your Auto will start out as a powerhouse, you have access to regen, refresh and Enthunder at level 1 on your partner and you don't even need FoV tabs to get it, how cool is that?!

As a pup, outside of doing missions you never have to look for a party because you can always solo. That means Abyssea levels, too. On the other hand, pup is very versatile in party situations because you simply choose the right Auto set-up to fill DD, nuker, ranger or back-up healer roles (main heal is generally not advised unless you have several back-ups), although your choices before level 50 will be limited (obviously) by what frames or heads you have acquired so far. Good party leaders know this and the old /lolpup mentality is slowly fading (at least on my server) as people see what a properly-played pup can do. Hell, you can even pet pull!

This leads to the really big question: can you be a GOOD pup? A pup player needs to be intelligent. Pup has more control over their pet's AI than any other job via the use of manuvers. Spell choice, hate control, activity level, survivability and much more can and will be dictated by your manuvers, factoring in your choice of attachemnts, frame, head, pet health and distance from the target. It is up to you to know how to make "x" happen at any given time by your manuver choice. You better know when your pet is about to overload, too. So don't expect to just send out your sharp-shot and then AFK to watch a football game while the XP rolls in because it's not gonna happen. All of that may sound like alot, but it's really no more complex than playing any other job well; attention to detail is what seperates the good players from the bad.

I realize I didn't answer your question, just gave you a bunch to think about. The only real answer I can give is I like playing and/or playing with a pup... even with everything I just said.

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This leads to the really big question: can you be a GOOD pup? A pup player needs to be intelligent. Pup has more control over their pet's AI than any other job via the use of manuvers.

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I would actually disagree with this; while the puppet has more possible actions than other pets, you don't necessarily have direct control over (most) of them. The maneuvers activate a set of possible actions, rather than just tell it "hey, heal me" or whatever- which is where most PUPs find their complaints.

One advice i can give is get PUP friends :D .