I feel like Delve just made 90% of the Adoulin content irrelevant

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Originally Posted by Zagen

How exactly isn't that how FFXI was before SoA? How isn't that how FFXI was before the level caps?

The only real difference now is how drastic the jump is and how fast it was implemented.

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There is a difference between having already farmed an event for years, and it being relevant. If you have played WoW any, compare the longevity of its rewards in initial raids like Molten Core to rewards from Dynamis. And that is one thing a lot of people liked about FFXI, if you put in the work for something like a relic or mythic, they stayed good investments.

Now unless there is a way for Relics, Mythics, and Emp to go above or equal to this new gear, why would anyone do anything related to them? Can even add in all the magian trials as well outside of ones with hard to duplicate effects like - pet damage taken.

Consider this, the new low end 1h weapons, are on par with the damage of old 2h weapons. And the new low end 2h weapons are 20-30 damage above most R/M/E, while the new good ones are often 100 damage above R/M/E.

Delve didn't just make 90% of Adoulin content irrelevant - it made 90% of ALL the game's content irrelevant.

The purpose of all these increases is to be a stepping-stone system.

Step 1) Get NNI/Neo Salvage/Legion gear
Step 2) With all that gear beat Nakaauls and Skirmish to get better weapons.
Step 3) Use Skirmish/Nakaaul/Bayld gear to beat Delve.


The notion of beating Delve with just Legion and VW equips is ridiculous. These mobs are too powerful. Use the gear from before the expansion to incrementally increase your own power with new gear and work your way up step-by-step to acquire newer gear to beat Delve.

That's not a stepping stone. That's going from an anthill to Mount Everest.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

The purpose of all these increases is to be a stepping-stone system.

Step 1) Get NNI/Neo Salvage/Legion gear
Step 2) With all that gear beat Nakaauls and Skirmish to get better weapons.
Step 3) Use Skirmish/Nakaaul/Bayld gear to beat Delve.


The notion of beating Delve with just Legion and VW equips is ridiculous. These mobs are too powerful. Use the gear from before the expansion to incrementally increase your own power with new gear and work your way up step-by-step to acquire newer gear to beat Delve.

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This sounds fine to me in concept, but I wonder if that progression will really only be a requirement for these top players that are challenging, and beating(?), Delve right now. Are the future adjustments Matsui referred already built in?

I don't know how the relative strength of the new weapons and gear compares to the difficulty of the Delve mobs. But I'm wondering if that relationship will end up like brews in Abyssea. In other words, to beat Rani and Shinryu the first time, you need a skilled team that's probably assembled a good collection of prior Abyssea items beforehand - atmas, atmacites, +1/2 Empyrean gear and weapons, etc. However, once a few people beat that stuff "legitimately", the cheap brew costs then trickles down into accessibility for everyone through your friends and noble shouters that brew the baddies for everyone else.

I don't mind this system personally. I had my share of dedicated time on FFXI but no longer have time for more than a couple hours a day. But I loved the hell out of Abyssea and was glad I could finish all the content and grab all the gear from the big guys with the help of the trickle-down brew effect in that short 1-2 hour a day span I had. And I was happy to praise the few people I knew that were part of the first-access crowd.

I'm curious to see if that's how it plays out here. After a few people get this new crazy gear, is it enough for those few to get wins and gear for others who stopped at empyrean +2? If that's the case, like many people said, the gear progression of requiring NNI, Neo-Salvage, etc. stops at the first few people, and others can simply skip it, not to mention anything else that's beaten by the Delve stuff.

Then again, the new gear could be balanced in such a way that you really do need 12-18 people that have the pre-SoA best stuff, even with a few guys that have the Delve equipment. While others are crying about their obsolete hard work, I'm mostly just curious.

I'm confused as to how taking months or even years to make a Relic, Mythic or Empyrian to 99 is a stepping stone to "Hey, I'll just make some gil and wait for this weapon to show up in the auction house."

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Some, this crushed every single weapon in the entire game so far as I know in damage, the only ones left are Ryuno for DRG, and Apoc for DRK, everything else is gone.

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The R/M/E weapons are being updated at some point. I just know all the people selling off their alex/currency/etc at these new weapons are going to regret it later.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

There is a difference between having already farmed an event for years, and it being relevant. If you have played WoW any, compare the longevity of its rewards in initial raids like Molten Core to rewards from Dynamis. And that is one thing a lot of people liked about FFXI, if you put in the work for something like a relic or mythic, they stayed good investments.

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I have played WoW though I haven't lately but I'm almost certain in saying nothing in WoW takes the amount of devotion a R/E/M does. Bringing up WoW would be relevant is SE had said "sorry guys R/E/M are old new now" but they didn't they said they will get updated. Patience is a virtue that seems lost on people lately.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Now unless there is a way for Relics, Mythics, and Emp to go above or equal to this new gear, why would anyone do anything related to them? Can even add in all the magian trials as well outside of ones with hard to duplicate effects like - pet damage taken.

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I'm still saving for a relic and a mythic currently even though there isn't currently a way to update them simply because SE said they would and I don't mind waiting. I never expected magian weapons to be the king forever.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Consider this, the new low end 1h weapons, are on par with the damage of old 2h weapons. And the new low end 2h weapons are 20-30 damage above most R/M/E, while the new good ones are often 100 damage above R/M/E.

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Yeah a lot of them are better at the moment but some are still worse because the R/E/M brought more to the table than just damage.

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Originally Posted by Triffle

I'm confused as to how taking months or even years to make a Relic, Mythic or Empyrian to 99 is a stepping stone to "Hey, I'll just make some gil and wait for this weapon to show up in the auction house."

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Can you make me "some gil" as it's pretty obvious the AH weapons require drops from the final delve bosses. If the "hardcore" gamers are struggling with just the "beginner" delve monsters what makes you think the drops will be cheap?

I would say WoW legendary weapons are similar to FFXI's empyreans, mainly they involve getting drops off a bosses in a raid for 2-3 months till you have enough to turn in to finish the weapon. Only difference is in WoW people know their legendary weapons will be trash come next expansion and aren't really mad when it happens because its expected since they do a gear reset every expansion. That is just how WoW works has worked for every expansion.

FFXI never has never had such an extreme upgrade in power like we see on the new weapons. Which is why people are somewhat upset over it. And the fact the dev team says stuff like they don't know if they have the manpower to put in a quest to make our r/m/e upgraded so we don't have to throw them away just adds fuel to the fire.

People aren't really struggling with it as few hours after the update happened there were already people on my server walking around with the new gear.