How about letting us upgrade Thief's Knife with ToM

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Originally Posted by Sapphire

Don't forget that the Devs have basically said your chances of a TH upgrade are higher the more TH gear you are wearing. So it's not just the Knife, you have to full time the hands and feet too in theory.

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This is exactly why his upgrade needs to come. I just can't really imagine whats going on in the heads of Devs when they release Sh*t like that, and think forcing a outdated weapon in our hands is fair. And yes, It is forced, In any group activity, the THF has two options, Wear the piece of crap, or get replaced.

Seriously, I'll reiterate this point because its needed now. You don't have to Magian it, or make a higher level dagger, Its this Simple.

Add an Accessory:
RingTHF
Lv.90+
Latent Effect: Treasure Hunter +1.

Latent active with no Thief's knife equipped. Simple. Replaces Thief's knife, Removes the need to wear a terrible weapon ever, and removes the threat of "Forced Dual wielding sh*tty TH Knifes" an upgrade might cause.

Is adding a ring to some Meeble Burrow NM that will improve the Quality of life for thousands of THF's such an unholy burdon on the dev team? I mean, I know adding any item can take some time, especially one with a unique Latent, But i can't imagine this would be too difficult, and in essence, you could treat it like other pieces of TH Gear. Swap at beginning > Take off.

Doesn't solve the idiocy of how upgrades work and fulltiming gives you highest benefit... god its like they want this job to shut up and know its place is nothing more than a worthless pile of mediocre who's only goal is to make things drop more, sometimes. Every Assassin/Thief/Rogue class in the world weeps at this terrible game design.

*Sigh*, Sorry, I get ranty when it comes to THF. I still love you guys.

This is a topic I've always found interesting because my opinion on it changes back and forth.

On the one hand, it's an ancient level 70 weapon that thfs are still expected to use because it has a unique bonus to the one big thing people invite THFs for. The level 51 staves which kept mages in the same boat got replaced by magian staves and chatoyant. Keeping the knife this weak forces a THF to choose between damage and TH.

On the other hand, that might be exactly what SE is going for. Similar to how a SCH can choose to specialize in white or black magic and change on the fly if needed. SCH still has mediocre black magic while in light arts mode and THF still has mediocre TH while wearing damage daggers. Plus there's the argument of "if THF's knife is so worthless, then why does every THF worth his salt still carry one?"

In the long run, even if they updated the damage on thf's knife... I'd still probably tag high-priority targets, then put on a better damage dagger. Karbuncle's ring suggestion would be awesome for guys like me.

The only problem i see with the Elemental Staves is that the jobs that use those, Generally don't tend to Melee, ever.

only exception i would imagine would be COR and RNG, but COR Actually gains damage on most enemies by using Fire/Chatoyant, and RNG has had replacement for the Fire/Vulcan for a while i believe. (Outside of Wildfire).

Thief's knife is worthless for DD, not whats its used for. I carry one in my mog sack for those times i might be fighting something like Fafnir where I care more about highest TH Than i do Killing it quickly, since the goal is the drop. (This is different for time based events like Dynamis).

Still your reasoning is pretty much how i saw it too. They wont give us Subtle Blow because we upgrade TH on attacks, and if we got Subtle blow, Banana Purple Lake Monster. Or something, It made no sense and i hate Square enix every time they open their flaps about Thief, as it makes me want to drink acid to wash down the gurgling idio......... Calm down karby...

But yah, Its probably got something to do with BALANCE.

I mean hey, the jobs already Balanced into a steaming pile of mediocrity, lets tack on a sh*tty level 70 weapon to really twist the knife into their backs.

Get it? TWIST THEIR KNIFE INTO THEIR BACKS? ITS A PUN YOU SEE, CAUSE ITS A THIEFS KNIFE

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Add an Accessory:
RingTHF
Lv.90+
Latent Effect: Treasure Hunter +1.

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Yeah but even if they add something like this you just would end up creating a gear swap macro for your ring instead of your knife.

I frankly dont see the big deal. We all have gear set macros and are constantly swapping things in an out. Your not going to full time this knife any more than your going to full time the hands or feet so just macro in a better weapon. If you are full timing hands and feet anyway this knife really isnt hurting you that bad since dps doesnt seem to be a priority.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

do you actually need to fulltime the thief's knife? Can't you just max out the treasure hunter amount then take it off?

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You can't really "max out" TH without wearing it because your chance to level up TH is based on your current TH level vs mob TH level. And the chance to level up TH lowers as that gap grows.

Now, whether or not it's worth it to "max out" TH and spend that time and effort leveling up TH to 12ish..I don't know.

I think that's the bad joke. We have to full-time bad gear and a terrible weapon to "level up" this super duper important trait that actually has very little effect compared to job level traits.

Also:

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Originally Posted by Krabnuckle

Square Enix doesn't care about THF

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^

But it could be the exact opposite and the Developer in charge of THF actually has an intense hatred for the job:

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Originally Posted by Spankwustler

My favorite theory is that one of the Development Bros actually hates this game and everything in it. Long ago, someone he loved became a shut-in who, to this very day, does nothing but play Final Fantasy XI all day. This Development Bro is allowed to stay on and take revenge on Final Fantasy XI because he's the only one still around who can code for a PS2 and he is more interested in nursing his grudge than getting a raise.

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My theory is that it stems from RMT THFs back in the day because they are still spewing nonsense about stealing gold coins over and over (which hasn't been possible for many years) as a reason why we can't have nice things.

I kind of wonder if improving Thief's Knife would actually change anything other than making people feel less horrible about either losing TP or using a level 70 weapon.

Right now, Thief's Knife is generally used when a Thief's damage isn't relevant either way. Fafnir is going to die with the certainty of a pancreatic cancer patient regardless of weapon quality, and killing it faster doesn't let anybody kill another Fafnir any sooner, so a weapon that provides a microscopic bonus to drop rate is used. The damage dealt to Gallu by one one-handed melee in the wrong party to be fully buffed is going to be horrid either way, so a weapon that provides a microscopic bonus to drop rate is used.

When damage actually matters, though, anything that makes stuff die faster becomes better. Statistically, the bonus from high amounts of Treasure Hunter is almost nothing, so it can only compete when the effect of additional damage is "almost nothing" or actually "nothing".

So, I'm not sure what a less horrid Thief's Knife would do other than make people feel less horrid about their own damage while playing Thief. Also, I'm not sure the Development Bros want people to feel less horrid while playing Thief, given that the job's purpose seems to be to exist and have Treasure Hunter as a job trait.

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Originally Posted by Elphy

Yeah but even if they add something like this you just would end up creating a gear swap macro for your ring instead of your knife.

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Swapping a ring doesn't cause TP loss.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

Swapping a ring doesn't cause TP loss.

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The loss of a little tp is generally not a make or break. Especially if you swap immediately after a ws, which is what I generally do, which causes a tp loss of like 10-15, 1 attack round and you get that back.

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Originally Posted by Elphy

The loss of a little tp is generally not a make or break. Especially if you swap immediately after a ws, which is what I generally do, which causes a tp loss of like 10-15, 1 attack round and you get that back.

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Now if you are fighting just a single mob, thats ok, but when doing something where you are fighting many mobs, the effect gets bigger over time, for instance Dyna, Salvage, Abyssea even, when you come to these cases, you really would rather go without the lost TP or the slower kill speed.

I think that's part of the idea of the thief's knife though. Getting that 1 extra TH comes at a cost. If you want it on every mob, you're probably stuck wearing it the whole damned time unless you really don't care about TP.

Now if they were to allow us to magian it to a certain point, what should that certain point be? 100 DMG is obviously too high. 28 DMG is too low. What is the fair middle ground?