They made drops to "solve" this problem, but the probelm is the drops are inferior. The conversion to drops should have upgraded the potions, not weakened them...Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel
I wouldn't say the temp item potions are useless- the better ones e.g. lucid potion III, restore a LOT of HP e.g. more than you can cure in one shot and don't take long to use. but good luck convincing SE to let us have these elsewhere.
I think the issue they have is you can use potions at any level, so really powerful potions would break low level gameplay. That's understandable, but why can't they just give potions a level requirement?
Make meds stack to 99
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02-05-2013, 01:18 PMAlhanelem
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02-05-2013, 02:45 PMEconomizerOr have certain potions scale with stats. You have 100 HP? This potion cures 50 HP. You have 1000 HP? This potion now cures 500 HP. It wouldn't be too much harder to have better scaling then a flat percentage of health, it isn't like cures don't have stepped progression.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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02-06-2013, 01:57 AMSarickI agree (Potion 50 HP and 5% HP) +1 % for each higher tier version this way they always scale. I didn't modify the base HP gained these where taken off Wiki. I only added scaling percentage bonuses. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Economizer
MHP indicates max HP
Potion (50hp +5% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +100HP , 5000MHP = +300HP
Potion +1 (60hp +6% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +120HP, 5000MHP = +360HP
Potion +2 (75hp +7% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +145HP, 5000MHP = +425HP
Potion +3 (100hp +8% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +180HP, 5000MHP = +500HP
Maximum Potion +3 potential at 9999MHP = +599.95HP
Hi-Potion (100hp +10% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +200HP, 5000MHP = +600HP
Hi-Potion +1 (110hp +11% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +220HP, 5000MHP = +660HP
Hi-Potion +2 (120hp +12% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +240HP, 5000MHP = +720HP
Hi-Potion +3 (130hp +13% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +260HP, 5000MHP = +780HP
Maximum Hi-Potion +3 potential at 9999MHP = +1429.87HP
X-Potion (150hp +15% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +300HP, 5000MHP = +900HP
X-Potion +1 (160hp +16% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +320HP, 5000MHP = +960HP
X-Potion +2 (170hp +17% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +340HP, 5000MHP = +1020HP
X-Potion +3 (180hp +18% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +360HP, 5000MHP = +1080HP
Maximum X-Potion +3 potential at 9999MHP = +1979.82HP
Max-Potion (500hp +20% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +700HP, 5000MHP = +1500HP
Max-Potion +1 (550hp +21% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +760HP, 5000MHP = +1600HP
Max-Potion +2 (650hp +22% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +870HP, 5000MHP = +1750HP
Max-Potion +3 (700hp +23% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +930HP, 5000MHP = +1850HP
Maximum Max-Potion +3 potential at 9999MHP = +2999.77HP
If that seems a bit strong how about this?
Potion (50hp +0.5% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +55HP, 5000MHP = +75HP
Potion +1 (60hp +1% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +70HP, 5000MHP = +110HP
Potion +2 (75hp +2% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +95HP, 5000MHP = +175HP
Potion +3 (100hp +3% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +130HP, 5000MHP = +250HP
Maximum Potion +3 potential at 9999MHP = +399.97HP
Hi-Potion (100hp +5% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +150HP, 5000MHP = +350HP
Hi-Potion +1 (110hp +6% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +170HP, 5000MHP = +410HP
Hi-Potion +2 (120hp +7% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +190HP, 5000MHP = +470HP
Hi-Potion +3 (130hp +8% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +210HP, 5000MHP = +530HP
Maximum Hi-Potion +3 potential at 9999MHP = +929.92HP
X-Potion (150hp +10% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +250HP, 5000MHP = +650HP
X-Potion +1 (160hp +11% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +270HP, 5000MHP = +710HP
X-Potion +2 (170hp +12% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +290HP, 5000MHP = +770HP
X-Potion +3 (180hp +13% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +310HP, 5000MHP = +830HP
Maximum X-Potion +3 potential at 9999MHP = +1479.87HP
Max-Potion (500hp +15% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +650HP, 5000MHP = +1250HP
Max-Potion +1 (550hp +16% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +710HP, 5000MHP = +1350HP
Max-Potion +2 (650hp +17% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +820HP, 5000MHP = +1500HP
Max-Potion +3 (700hp +18% MHP) Effects: 1000MHP = +880HP, 5000MHP = +1600HP
Maximum Max-Potion +3 potential at 9999MHP = +2499.82HP
You're also forgetting a couple things.
1. At low level the tougher "IT" mobs still hit harder then the lowest potions so it's not much of a game breaker.
2. Although they could be abused the cost of spamming them isn't worth doing it.
If they could stack I'd see it as a good thing it'd create another gil sink players could take advantage of. Even with the highest modifications I posted they'd still be VERY VERY... expensive to produce. This would limit the game breaking aspects because of the expensive nature spamming them.
I doubt players would take 60 Max potions with them at all times or consume at will even if they stacked to 12. It'd amount to millions of gil worth of medicines. This is why not allowing them to stack is a severely stupid game design concept. In fact by not allowing them to stack SE is breaking the opportunity for a gil sink that could help keep the game economy in check. Wealthy players could use them to be more bad arse. -
02-06-2013, 04:35 AMbungiefanNAThat would be Namco "Tales of..." item logic, where gummies heal 30%, 60%, or 100% of a stat, and Tales of Eternia Online already shut down years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Economizer
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02-06-2013, 05:07 AMAlhanelemThere are % based potions, but they're either rare, temps, or take a long time to use.Quote:
Or have certain potions scale with stats. You have 100 HP? This potion cures 50 HP. You have 1000 HP? This potion now cures 500 HP. It wouldn't be too much harder to have better scaling then a flat percentage of health, it isn't like cures don't have stepped progression.
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02-06-2013, 07:24 AMSarickI'm sorry, Alhanelem I quoted the wrong post.Quote:
Or have certain potions scale with stats. You have 100 HP? This potion cures 50 HP. You have 1000 HP? This potion now cures 500 HP. It wouldn't be too much harder to have better scaling then a flat percentage of health, it isn't like cures don't have stepped progression.
This isn't totally good. If a player has 50 hp and use a potion with it only using a basic percentage they might only get 5 hp. There needs to be a base minimum + the percentage or you have exspensive items that are worthless for players with low max hp.
When using a raw percentage (30k gil max-potion +3) on a level 3 players with say 75% HP recovery if their a max hp is 100 they would gain 75HP. A player that uses a normal potion with that setup and a 5% max hp recovery would only recover 5 HP. Even a level one player would laugh at such a poor amount of hp. If they had 10000 hp then that 5% might look good but at low hp it'd be junk at 5%.
As you can see simply making them only based on one factor keeps them as total trash for scaling all ranges. In my first example a potion would give 50 hp base and add 5% of the players max HP. So a low level player with would get at least 50hp. Someone with 100hp would get around 55HP cured and someone with 1000hp would get around 100hp cured using that same type of potion. If they had 9999hp the percentage bonuses would scale nicely giving almost 550HP!! -
02-06-2013, 01:09 PMEconomizerI'm suggesting that potions could have a floor, steeping scaling formulas much like cures, and even caps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
For example, a Potion heals about 50 HP. After changes it could even do that until the player has 500 HP, then gain 10% of the amount after 500, so at 600 you get 60 HP, at 700 you get 70 HP... and then it could cap out at 100 HP.
That doesn't even have to be the exact change, it is just an example of what could be done.
Other changes could be related to adding level requirements to potions like you suggested - they have level requirements for certain items that give players experience points, so it would even be hard. Another option would be letting lowbie players use the same potions, but they suffer from a medicated effect, whereas a high level player eating say, a Strength Potion, wouldn't have that medicated effect, or would have it last less time. Or a combination of many different ideas.
Players who are wealthy enough in real life can afford to dual box with their pocket trashmage, or even tribox even more support into the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarick
I'm sure there are other arguments for and against potions being made more powerful, and we'll hear them out if we haven't already, but another point I'd like to make is that if you made potions stackable, given the cheap nature of low level potions, you will open up the eventual possibility for the Chemist job a tiny bit more. -
02-06-2013, 02:25 PMSarickI don't see the point in limiting the potions. If you're a level 1 player a level 99 WHM can still cast cure 6 on you. It would be stupid but it would still max cure you. It's not like level 1 players would be dishing out 30k for Max-Potions when they could just have another player cure them for free. The potions & ethers are more or less emergency goodies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Economizer
With scaled potions no matter what there is always going to be a big drawback for using versions that are too strong for the players level. If the player uses expensive potions sure they heal for more but also cost more and don't give the same bonus benefits. This makes it stupid to use them if your lower level. It'd be different if they temporally increased max HP but they don't so a player is still going to be blowing gil.
In game and real world wealth are different beast. I'm talking about players who don't use that stuff. The ones that are single box one account players. Even then the pocket mages could use the ethers to recover MP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Economizer
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02-06-2013, 05:41 PMEconomizerBut someone at SE might. Why bother risking game balance for the non-target group of the change when you could stomp out the possibility altogether?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarick
This was actually an argument for better potions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarick
That said, there is always the risk that you replace healers altogether in certain situations, or turn some jobs towards pay to play (in gil) that weren't supposed to be - a Ninja or a Corsair might be required to pay for their ammo or tools, but is magic supposed to be that way too? And if magic becomes pay to play, then why should melees get such a free pass merely eating cheap food, shouldn't they have to buy some Soda (assuming Soda sees upgrades)?
So of course we'll see consequences, we just have to know that we accept those consequences, and it will be fun for the majority of players. -
07-26-2013, 07:48 AMOmnysValefor
Necro'ing this.
They're talking in other topics about our inventory concerns. Ideas posed in this thread would go a long way.
Make all meds stack to 99, including elixirs, ethers, etc.
Alter the synthesis recipes, or make it possible to sell them on the AH in stacks of 12 (this could be difficult, givin the sell-interface).
And to introduce a do thought, give us a special bag that can only hold meds, and meds, when used, are used directly from there. If I /item "echo drops" Omnys, it uses it directly from my "First-aid kit".
When I use an item from the menu, it could do like with temp items and have the First-aid kit's items load first.