Can the Devs allow Dual Wielding Shields?

At first I was like "wth is this $h!t"

Than I see the illustration's and I'm like "Oh yeah, that could work"

Best thing about your suggestion's King, you always make them feel more feasible with the art work.

I strongly suspect that SE will not implement this as a dual-wielded weapon system, or as a dual-shield system wherein both shields are processed by the game system in the same manner as a single shield is now.

However, if SE did decide to allow dual-shield wielding, I would bet they would do so by creating a 'Shield' weapon type (more akin to Swords than existing Shields).

Main-slot Shields would primarily do Blunt damage, and would generally have DEF+ as one of their stats. Their damage would likely be low, probably comparable to Clubs or -both more likely and more depressing - Wands.*

The Weapon Skills that this Shield Weapon category would provide would probably have primary staples including Stun or Knockback effects, possibly with at least one higher-level WS including a Terrorize effect to represent an enhanced stun. Most Weapon Skills would have VIT as either their sole or primary stat modifier. I'd bet there would be at least one WS that derives its damage solely from the Defense stat, similar to BLU's Cannonball.

I would also bet that most HQ shield weapons would include Shield Skill bonuses, and the most common attribute bonus would be VIT+.

Shield Weapons may or may not trigger parries. I'm not sure if they should or not - mechanically, that's the easiest way to adapt existing mechanics to simulate using the primary-hand Shield being used to block attacks. However, thematically it's very strange to think of a person blocking attacks with one shield while parrying attacks with another shield.
This issue could probably be sidestepped if the Defense and/or Shield Skill bonuses of main-hand shields were sufficiently potent.




I know it would be nice to be able to attack with two one-handed Shield weapons, and/or to have twice the chance to block... but I just don't see it as feasible for the dev team to devote the time it would take to rework the existing off-hand-only Shield (and shield skill / blocking) system to work on the mainhand.


Plus, think about how many shields already exist. Would they all be reworked to function as weapons? Only some of them? Or would shields that work as weapons be a wholly separate category of item, requiring the creation of enough new shields to justify their own weapon category?


* EDIT: Shields as a weapon would almost definitely be severely limited in their damage potential so as to maintain the attractiveness of using actual weapons instead of dual-wielding shields. Running around with two defensive tools should definitely enhance your defensive capability, but it should force a question about if the tradeoff of reduced offensive capability is worth the enhanced defense.
...on a related tangent, I am certain that these shield weapons would have Enmity-enhancing statistics of some sort, and probably at least one enmity-enhancing or enmity-generating weapon skill, to make up for the enmity loss of the reduced damage. This would need to be an attractive option for tanks, after all, and a tank that can't hold hate can't tank very well.

EDIT2: ALso, I do think there would be at least a few 'spiked' and 'bladed' shield weapons that would do, respectively, piercing and slashing damage instead of or in addition to blunt damage. But I also think they would be small in number and the exception rather than the standard. Just makes more sense thematically that way. (But I'd be going out of my way to collect them.)


EDIT3: While I doubt an actual implementation would measure up to the idea put forth in the OP's art, I can definitely see a Galka Paladin with two shields in his hands, resolutely standing against the goblin that is trying to get to the oh-so-fragile Tarutaru mages behind him, with a look that says "just try it" as he executes his new (shield) weapon skill Blade Breaker that stuns the goblin and drastically reduces the damage he can deal - which allows the healer a moment to catch some breath and rebuild some MP. Or throw out more buffs.

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Originally Posted by Yokai

I strongly suspect that SE will not implement this as a dual-wielded weapon system, or as a dual-shield system wherein both shields are processed by the game system in the same manner as a single shield is now.

However, if SE did decide to allow dual-shield wielding, I would bet they would do so by creating a 'Shield' weapon type (more akin to Swords than existing Shields).

Main-slot Shields would primarily do Blunt damage, and would generally have DEF+ as one of their stats. Their damage would likely be low, probably comparable to Clubs or -both more likely and more depressing - Wands.*

The Weapon Skills that this Shield Weapon category would provide would probably have primary staples including Stun or Knockback effects, possibly with at least one higher-level WS including a Terrorize effect to represent an enhanced stun. Most Weapon Skills would have VIT as either their sole or primary stat modifier. I'd bet there would be at least one WS that derives its damage solely from the Defense stat, similar to BLU's Cannonball.

I would also bet that most HQ shield weapons would include Shield Skill bonuses, and the most common attribute bonus would be VIT+.

Shield Weapons may or may not trigger parries. I'm not sure if they should or not - mechanically, that's the easiest way to adapt existing mechanics to simulate using the primary-hand Shield being used to block attacks. However, thematically it's very strange to think of a person blocking attacks with one shield while parrying attacks with another shield.
This issue could probably be sidestepped if the Defense and/or Shield Skill bonuses of main-hand shields were sufficiently potent.




I know it would be nice to be able to attack with two one-handed Shield weapons, and/or to have twice the chance to block... but I just don't see it as feasible for the dev team to devote the time it would take to rework the existing off-hand-only Shield (and shield skill / blocking) system to work on the mainhand.


Plus, think about how many shields already exist. Would they all be reworked to function as weapons? Only some of them? Or would shields that work as weapons be a wholly separate category of item, requiring the creation of enough new shields to justify their own weapon category?


* EDIT: Shields as a weapon would almost definitely be severely limited in their damage potential so as to maintain the attractiveness of using actual weapons instead of dual-wielding shields. Running around with two defensive tools should definitely enhance your defensive capability, but it should force a question about if the tradeoff of reduced offensive capability is worth the enhanced defense.
...on a related tangent, I am certain that these shield weapons would have Enmity-enhancing statistics of some sort, and probably at least one enmity-enhancing or enmity-generating weapon skill, to make up for the enmity loss of the reduced damage. This would need to be an attractive option for tanks, after all, and a tank that can't hold hate can't tank very well.

EDIT2: ALso, I do think there would be at least a few 'spiked' and 'bladed' shield weapons that would do, respectively, piercing and slashing damage instead of or in addition to blunt damage. But I also think they would be small in number and the exception rather than the standard. Just makes more sense thematically that way. (But I'd be going out of my way to collect them.)


EDIT3: While I doubt an actual implementation would measure up to the idea put forth in the OP's art, I can definitely see a Galka Paladin with two shields in his hands, resolutely standing against the goblin that is trying to get to the oh-so-fragile Tarutaru mages behind him, with a look that says "just try it" as he executes his new (shield) weapon skill Blade Breaker that stuns the goblin and drastically reduces the damage he can deal - which allows the healer a moment to catch some breath and rebuild some MP. Or throw out more buffs.

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Sorry for the delay in clarifying the direction the Original concept was suggesting, I've been running around all day (>.<)

Your post is a great summery of the thought process around the concept I was toying with, so this is an awesome addition to the thread, thanks. To answer your questions in order:

• Weapon Category
  I'm indeed suggesting the implementation of a new weapon type/category vs the current available defensive only shields. These shields would be considered a Main hand weapon if used in conjunction with our traditional shields and would not activate the sub shield as a melee weapon. Only if two of these melee shields are equipped would they both be used to cause damage and thus be classified as "Dual-wielding Shields" as suggested in the Original post. The unique part of this weapon however, would be that it's actually a hybrid in terms of functionality. It would have the ability to be used as an offensive tool as well as defensive tool all by itself, so technically a player would be wielding both at once (melee + blocking + weapon skills, etc). So the programming challenge would come down to merging the properties of the two functions effectively.
  
• Damage/Weapon skills
  The damage would be on par with what a high end Axe would produce, and would indeed have an assortment of push back and enfeebling weapon skills available to the user. I can also see a number of Rush-like weapon skills that would generate spike enmity to grab the monsters attention. The damage would be primarily be blunt, but would also encompass slashing damage if a spiked or bladed-edge shield is being wielded. I really like the bonuses that you've suggested (the +shield skill, VIT based weapon skill mods) and I would include strong +counter and +parrying values to the mix. Which leads to if the melee shield should parry or not.
  Since I'm suggesting this concept as a new fighting style, as awkward as it might seem, this fighting style would function like no other using an intricate mix of blocking, parrying, strong slashing/striking and stiff blows. Along with the use of two of these shields at the same time it would be a very unique display of battling.
  
• The Devs Investment
  In terms of the Devs investing time and work into a new weapon category, I believe with the new expansion coming up, finding socially unique concepts to fill out all the boarders of the new lands is a very important goal for the future of the entertainment quality produced for the loyal player base of FFXI. The last handful of "expansions" have been reskinned zones for the most part with the exception of the introduction of a few new monster types and bosses, so the new expansion has the potential to be a new rich social experience similar to Aht Urhgan. Aht Urhgan introduced two new job classes that used traditional weapon types as this new expansion will, but imagine the depth that a new weapon category could bring outside of just new job classes.
  It's very much apart of the Devs job to create new and varying content for us to enjoy so I think it would hold some potential if done correctly. By "correctly" I mean not just adding it to be adding it, but truly making it something unique and rewarding for players to pick up and master.

Again, thanks for the very detailed post Yokai /salute
(Look forward to seeing that very image added to the OP with the Galka smacking the goblin btw lol)

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Originally Posted by Siviard

Interesting concept!

Oh, and Kingfury, what are your play times? I've been wanting to speak to you in-game about something.

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Thanks /

I'm kind've here and there recently, but you can shoot me an email if you just have a question. My "Contact me" link is here on my ffxi gallery page.

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

At first I was like "wth is this $h!t"

Than I see the illustration's and I'm like "Oh yeah, that could work"

Best thing about your suggestion's King, you always make them feel more feasible with the art work.

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lol Thanks /
Yeah, as an illustrator I've come to understand that a lot of the time all it takes is a little bit of visual dressing to help convey the concept to make it clear for the audience :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yokai

While I doubt an actual implementation would measure up to the idea put forth in the OP's art, I can definitely see a Galka Paladin with two shields in his hands, resolutely standing against the goblin that is trying to get to the oh-so-fragile Tarutaru mages behind him, with a look that says "just try it" as he executes his new (shield) weapon skill Blade Breaker that stuns the goblin and drastically reduces the damage he can deal - which allows the healer a moment to catch some breath and rebuild some MP. Or throw out more buffs.

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:)

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3...hields2web.jpg

I'm liking this, it's good to see well-presented new ideas once in a while and a dual shield system would be pretty interesting as a combat style, maybe Square Enix could consider a new job being released with this combat style as a grounding, I'm thinking 'Guardian' personally. It'd be like a non-magical Paladin with the ability to buff it's own defence as well as those around it.

I'd like to see more multi-job integrations though, Meteor for example, is increased for every Black Mage that casts simultaneously, so why not have something similar for this but from a defensive standpoint? How about a Testudo (Turtle Shell) formation like the Ancient Roman army practiced? Or a Schiltron formation used by spear wielders in Medieval times?

Personally I think it's something Squeenix hasn't explored yet and it's a big area for new innovative ideas. Plus the idea of using dual shields could easily be integrated into something just like this.

Speaking as someone with Aegis and Ochain, I have to support this.

I doubt this idea is worth an entire new weaponskill or job, but I could see it work as a gimmicky H2H weapon like Vampiric Claws or Birdbanes.

Armguard (R)(E)
(Hand-to-hand)All Races
DMG:+30 Delay:+84
"Shieldguard"
Lv.99 WAR / MNK / RDM / DRK / PUP

Shieldguard : allows hits to be shielded using Guard skill, but disables guarding.

Or perhaps as a subslot item for H2H weapons:
Armguard
(Grip) All Races
Chance to block incoming hits +5%
Lv. 99 MNK/PUP

Anyone ever play Rygar? The main weapon was something called Diskarmor, looked similar to these concepts, but also had a relatively large attack distance. Something between melee and ranged attack.