Can anyone help me make sense of this please?

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

This is not an invitation to a debate!

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Then later...

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

So we were having an argument

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I have nothing else to add.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Then later...



I have nothing else to add.

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I was explaining how the issue arose, if you had nothing to add to the conversation then why did you post?

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Edit to add: According to one of the wikis on the subject you're supposed to use the formula "Base Damage = floor(( Weapon Base Damage + (Ammo Damage) + fSTR(2) + WSC ) * fTP)" so that would be "Base Damage = floor(( 61 + (Ammo Damage) + (61/9) + 91 ) * 4) " but I have no idea what to do with 'ammo damage' so for now I'll ignore it and the answer comes out to "635+(158*2)=951".

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Ammo is only in case you're using a ranged weapon, which doesn't apply in your case (for ranged weapons base damage consists of weapon damage + ammo damage). Also, fTP for CdC is 2.25. fSTR is floor(69/9)+8 (if capped). Where does the 635 come from? It should be:

floor((61 + floor(69/9)+8 + 91)*2.25) = floor(166*2.25) = 373

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Ammo is only in case you're using a ranged weapon, which doesn't apply in your case (for ranged weapons base damage consists of weapon damage + ammo damage). Also, fTP for CdC is 2.25. fSTR is floor(69/9)+8 (if capped).

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Ah, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Where does the 635 come from?

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From the first equation, which I didn't understand quite right. Where did you get 69 from?

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Originally Posted by Arcon

floor((61 + floor(69/9)+8 + 91)*2.25) = floor(166*2.25) = 373

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Not that I'm saying that you're wrong but does that take into account that CDC is a three-hit WS?

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

From the first equation, which I didn't understand quite right. Where did you get 69 from?

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My bad, it's supposed to be 61 (Almace 90 base damage). I still don't see where 635 is from. I also don't know why you did 91*2 in the first equation.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Not that I'm saying that you're wrong but does that take into account that CDC is a three-hit WS?

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No, that was just for the first hit. All the other hits, whether it's three or five (from Double/Triple Attack, offhand or whatever) will add another hit but without the fTP multiplier. This effectively adds 1 to the fTP for each hit. So if you count three hits on average, you'll have 2.25 + 1 + 1 (first hit 2.25, every subsequent hit 1), which means combined fTP would equal 4.25.

This would bring the total result to:
floor((61 + floor(61/9)+8 + 91)*4.25) = floor(166*4.25) = 705

This result will now be multiplied with the pDIF, where your Attack will be pitted against the target's Defense (which makes it even more complicated). Note that this also doesn't take the critical hit rate/damage into account.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Yeah, but fSTR is the difference between your STR and your target's VIT, right? Where do I get the information about specific mobs like Akvan, Voidwrought, Necronomicon and the other LWNM?

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Unless I'm seriously misunderstanding fSTR, that information doesn't matter unless you can cap it against a given target, because fSTR increases your damage linearly so adding a point of STR always increases your damage by the same amount until the value is high (at which point it still increases damage more than most other options) or capped.

You are, simply put, staggeringly unlikely to cap fSTR on meaningful targets outside Abyssea. Depending on weapon rank, your target, and whether or not you set VV or a different STR atma, you may have a hard time capping fSTR inside Abyssea. The VIT of various VWNMs is perhaps interesting information to have but its practical application seems pretty limited.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

You are, simply put, staggeringly unlikely to cap fSTR on meaningful targets outside Abyssea.

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No, mobs tend to have lower defensive stats then compared to their offensive stats. fSTR's cap is weapon rank +8 where weapon rank is =floor(weapon damage/9). so a lv 90 almace with dmg:61 has weapon rank of 6, and fSTR cap of 14.

This means the blu will need only 60 str more than the target's vit to cap. This is possible against pretty much anything in abyssea (with cruor buffs easily) and i'd say up to T2 jeuno VWNMs pre-stat increasing temps.

Now for a CDC calculation:
CDC = 60% dex mod WSC, 2.25 first hit fTP
This means the WS, in total, including extra hit from DW, is a 5.25 fTP WS

WS dmg=(D+fSTR+WSC)*fTP*pDIF

WSC = 150*.6 = 90

(61+14+90)*5.25*2.4=2079 damage

Attack ratio is the formula the relates your attack to your opponent's defense. pDIF takes that and is adjusted by a random multiplier and crit damage increase. Since CDC can crit, i assumed 40% crit hit rate. This increases the avg pDIF from 2.0 (the 1 handed cap) to 2.4

There are other factors like crit hit dmg, DA, and TA, but that's not necessary to demonstrate WS calculation. Note that this calculation uses capped attack ratio and capped fSTR.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

My bad, it's supposed to be 61 (Almace 90 base damage). I still don't see where 635 is from. I also don't know why you did 91*2 in the first equation.

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The 91*2 is from a second equation and a total misunderstanding on my part of the math involved and I really should have removed it with the edit.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

No, that was just for the first hit. All the other hits, whether it's three or five (from Double/Triple Attack, offhand or whatever) will add another hit but without the fTP multiplier. This effectively adds 1 to the fTP for each hit. So if you count three hits on average, you'll have 2.25 + 1 + 1 (first hit 2.25, every subsequent hit 1), which means combined fTP would equal 4.25.

This would bring the total result to:
floor((61 + floor(61/9)+8 + 91)*4.25) = floor(166*4.25) = 705

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So a Galka DRG with (being generous here) 350 STR and a level 95 Rhongomiant and uses Star Diver you'd have something like "floor((146+floor(146/9)+8+124)*3)=834"?

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Originally Posted by Arcon

This result will now be multiplied with the pDIF, where your Attack will be pitted against the target's Defense (which makes it even more complicated).

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Is there an chart or something to help determine this?

gear swap is for soloist

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32078748/Rosina-Poster2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

So a Galka DRG with (being generous here) 350 STR and a level 95 Rhongomiant and you'd have something like "floor((146+floor(146/9)+8+124)*3)=834"?

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Are you using Camlann's Torment as WS? As you were using 124 for the WSC value, and the WS has a 60% VIT mod, so x*0.6*0.85 = 124 means you were going with ~244 VIT? If so, then yes, this calculation is correct, only the result is a bit off:

floor((146 + floor(146/9)+8 + 124)*3) = floor((146 + 16+8 + 124)*3) = floor(294*3) = 882

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Is there an chart or something to help determine this?

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Sadly, no one fully understands how pDIF exactly works. There's some approximations of it you can follow here, and there are several DD spreadsheets that calculate some of that stuff for you (also just approximately, though) here.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

gear swap is for soloist

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32078748/Rosina-Poster2.jpg

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Thanks for that. Laughed big time. Good way to start the day.