WHM Have NO Natural Refresh Capability, WHY?

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Originally Posted by Rya

Such anger! I like it! Now use it for KILLAGE! MWAHAHAHA!! :mad:

Mystic Boon is what WHMs get. It's mega-huge. And as if that weren't enough, we got Dagan for guaranteed returns (though they might be smaller). ;)

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WHM are NOT supposed to be a DD job, so how do they get TP? Whats more, unless you have ACTUALLY leveled your club skill, how are you going to hit the mob and GET TP? The theory behind that being a great way to get MP back is flawed, severely, which is why I left it out completely. You can not get MP back if your club skill is not leveled, you need a decent club to begin with and the best healing boost weapons are staves. Which you ALSO need to skill up if you want to be able to effectively use Spirit Taker.

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Originally Posted by Simian

First...I am a WHM that has been playing it as long as you....but I am not an in the box WHM either....not many WHM's that I know have capped merits on Divine Magic....

Secondly...I am Galka and I do not bathe in the waters off Khazam and unless you're a Taru...you do not have my MP pool or my HP pool....

With that said....Outside of Abyssea...when in healer mode....it is WHM/RDM....I can convert and cure someone before I even bother with myself....Within Abyssea....it is /BLM unless the fight is something that will tax my MP pool more than usual....and it is rare in either instance that I take a knee to recover MP....so I think my refresh rate is pretty good....

I'd rather see upgrades to light based damage spells rather than job traits.

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I have just about capped all my skills on WHM, I have 50% cure potency gear, and /SCH is the best for immediate MP recovery without taking a chance that I might die from a hate reset move. I have seen a lot of WHM die from Convert because the mob used a hate reset move, another mob saw low HP or just aggroed in general because they WHM has to move far enough away from the mob being fought so as not to die to a stray AoE.

And bathing in the waters of Kazham is a joke that GM's use. Ask them about it some time. It is the same as if you ask them to marry you, they will tell you they are married to SE. Every time.

In Abyssea, I go WHM90/SCH45 and I take 3 atmas, Ambition, Harmony, and Minikin Monstrosity. I never run out of MP and if I do, Sublimation is well enough to keep me going until the mob dies.

The point I am making is, WHM have no natural refresh. I don't care about how you can get around it with subjobs. A subjob is designed to ENHANCE the main job. It should not be defining it. The best way to see if a job is balanced is to remove your subjob. There is a glitch in the game that allows you to do it, it has been addressed and brought forward to SE numerous times but since it is "not a 'useful' glitch," they have not removed it and it is not illegal to use it. Remove your subjob and see how great you do on WHM, by itself. Without any kind of refresh, WHM drain their MP pool fast and the party will wipe.

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Originally Posted by Simian

The Cobra Unit Robe set from Campaign has +13 MP conserve for the set. I was laughed at for using it prior to being able to convert and refresh from /RDM, but the set does go far in that category, it just does not add enough MP for those needing an MP pool boost like Galka do.

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Again, WHM still has no "natural" form of refresh.

Hmmm cure cap is 50% so i have no use for harmony or rescurer. I use allure MM and Apoc. Ideal in af3 +2 body because of +2 refresh a tick. but yes it would be really nice if whm would get a refresh triat. As a main whm we could really use it sometimes. also i only /sch. love being able to aoe stoneskin regen and what not when exping

Then what is a sub job for if not to augment your main? Sorry, I am not seeing where 1 or 2 refresh/tic job trait would outweigh some of the other things needed by whm when I can get that refresh from subjobs and gear. It would be nice to have, I guess, but really, in all seriousness, can you even say that a refresh trait is as more of a need than adding much needed light damage spells that are far and away behind the current standard for any job at current max levels.

Someone once told me it isn't how much MP you have, it is how fast you can get it back, Part of getting it back is not spending it in the first place and Conserve MP works better on whm than it does on other jobs that have it. I can get 12mp/tic refresh outside of Abyssea. Is 1 or 2 mp/tic more going to save more than doing a Raise for less than a 100mp. If anything upgrade Conserve MP.

We can agree to disagree. I won't hold it against you, I promise. ...lol

"Without any kind of refresh, WHM drain their MP pool fast and the party will wipe."

Tell me you were not one of those WHM's that would not exp w/o a refresher prior to level cap increase. I had no problems handling an exp party w/o refresh.

Baroka.. i just wanted to say "I LOVE THAT PIC"!!! LOL

I think the main point is that every other mage job has some form of natural refresh, and WHM is the only one that doesn't. It really doesn't make much sense. We're the main job that is supposed to keep the parties alive, but we don't get any native abilities to back ourselves up.

One could argue that 89% of the time a WHM should have another job to support them in that area, but that still doesn't change the fact that we have nothing native to us. While every other job does, and has support from subjobs and other people's main jobs on top of it.

I wouldn't say that one is needed per say, but definitely would be nice. And make more sense.

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Originally Posted by Effilil

WHM Have NO Natural Refresh Capability, WHY?

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Because we WHMs aren't complainers like PLDs or we'd already have auto refresh.

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Originally Posted by Simian

Then what is a sub job for if not to augment your main?

Someone once told me it isn't how much MP you have, it is how fast you can get it back, Part of getting it back is not spending it in the first place and Conserve MP works better on whm than it does on other jobs that have it. I can get 12mp/tic refresh outside of Abyssea. Is 1 or 2 mp/tic more going to save more than doing a Raise for less than a 100mp. If anything upgrade Conserve MP.

We can agree to disagree. I won't hold it against you, I promise. ...lol

"Without any kind of refresh, WHM drain their MP pool fast and the party will wipe."

Tell me you were not one of those WHM's that would not exp w/o a refresher prior to level cap increase. I had no problems handling an exp party w/o refresh.

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You said so yourself, what is a subjob for if not to augment your main? A subjob is to enhance the main job, not define it. If WHM has no form of refresh without a subjob, the job is useless by itself. Square Enix has said, numerous times, a support job is not supposed to define a job, but help to enhance it.

Whoever told you "it isn't how much MP you have, it is how fast you can get it back" is an idiot. Who cares if you can get back MP fast, if you nuke through it as fast as you can spend it, you are not efficient at all. AND look at the trait Clear Mind V. Before level 75, WHM did not even get it. And you can see that by giving it to SMN before WHM, they really did not intend on giving it to WHM at all. WHM is the last on the list to get Clear Mind V. And Conserve MP is nice, but it is NOT reliable. It is a random chance to save MP on a spell.

We can agree to disagree if you like. I have no problems admitting that I am wrong about something if someone can produce a valid argument. You are producing arguments and I am debating against them. This is productive to prove why I feel WHM need some natural form of Refresh. I had no problems handling an exp party without refresh, but when people would link, or do something stupid (believe it or not, people do this quite often), refresh can make or break a party.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Because we WHMs aren't complainers like PLDs or we'd already have auto refresh.

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Maybe not complainers, but I sure as hell am a whiner. I want refresh. I love my refresh atmas but there is a whole world outside of Abyssea and my atmas don't seem to work there. Every mage job in the game has some way to recover MP, except for WHM. Complainers or not, I want to know why SE has yet to give us some kind of refresh.