New Weaponskills - Not what was expected

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Main purpose is to encourage people to play different jobs.

Imagine if WAR had ALL WSes. Why play any other jobs? When you exclude things from jobs, you start encouraging people to play more of the jobs.

While in theory we could let everyone merit all WSes, then we would have to impose some kind of "You got to equip 2 of them on WAR else it has too many" mechanics.

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not sure how that is encouraging anyone to play different jobs.

If war had all the WS he would still use GA because it would be dumb to use anything else, not even sure what that statement was on about at all.

amd ur 3rd and final statement makes just as little sense (no offense) as the restriction is already on the weapon being specific to the weapon type(read you can't use club WS using an axe)

The point eco is trying to make is that it is restricting how well you can performs x and y job because you had to merit a b and c WS. It is not making anyone more unique in any way at all. If you have sam you will merit shoha or retire it for example as it will fall so short for the bar minimum. It is basically a arbitrary limitation just to make an illusion of "uniqueness" that really is not there.

The irony of the "We want to be unique!" crowd is that they're basically arguing for conformity. Want to be seen as a career/good/whatever job? You better do XYZ! It happens already. The current merit system encourages it with a side of so many useless or too many to fairly split into choices (BLM/RDM/NIN say sup) that only "the best" are largely picked (Haste Samba and Reverse Flourish on DNC T1, for example).

In a nutshell, they're basically arguing to punish people who have the ability to fully diversify and adequately equip their characters. Just because someone has 10 jobs doesn't mean they're automatically worse than the guy who focused on 1. The new WS were implemented poorly, both in performance and distribution. Requiscat's problem is not the MND modifier, but the ATK penalty that effectively shaves 60+ ATK off RDM/BLU/PLD, putting them (well) below the defense rating of any new mobs added the past couple patches even in their WS gear. How others proceed to underperform or serve as sidegrades to older WS is an also issue. Otherwise, older WS acquired by means other than skilling have not been so handily restricted. Imagine only being able to get 5 of 20 Nyzul WS, or only 3 of the older quested WS? Would suck, wouldn't it?

SE just needs to up and lift all merit restrictions. Heck, it makes balance easier since they can assume everyone has everything capped when creating content and not leaving players wondering if they should drop some merits somewhere to put somewhere else. On its own, that whole process would be a significant time sink. Players will still vary in equipment and skill, as well as potential synergy between current party/alliance members. Meanwhile, nobody feels screwed out of a given ability just because they happened to like a few more jobs.

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The irony of the "We want to be unique!" crowd is that they're basically arguing for conformity.

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No, they're not. Even if you do have the pigeonholing you describe, different people pigeonhole into different jobs, making each person better at one or two jobs than the rest, even if they have them all. People will merit out their favorite jobs more than they will merit out the "best" ones.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No, they're not. Even if you do have the pigeonholing you describe, different people pigeonhole into different jobs, making each person better at one or two jobs than the rest, even if they have them all. People will merit out their favorite jobs more than they will merit out the "best" ones.

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That is such a false argument on top of being a monstrosity of a weak point to boot. People are "pidgeonholed" into a job based on what is needed almost 99% of the time(read: all the sick and tired whm due to aby burning them out, also stagger bitch jobs etc). People simply merit as they wish me for example i went based on which was most useful to merit first (example DA merit came before i did savagry) not based on this notion of a fav job. I lvled the jobs i liked end of story, i don't like one more then any other. not sure why people can still try to argue this, let alone how this is in any way allows people to be more customized(you will never see a sam w/o shoha now and if you do they will have to leave or change jobs or just be a laughed at)

EDIT: also forgot to point out to the quoted person: no..100% no ..people are as good as they are at the game reguardless of how many jobs they have or how few jobs they are asked to play, if you suck as war you will suck on any job that fits the bill of melee. If you are trying to use someone who poorly gears one job over another(ironically will be the case with weaponskills now since the limit is set on 3 and as such one of the key points those against it are making) then that is on them, not how well someone plays. The game is not rocket science.

Long story short, nice new WS some utility some good dmg, however worse possible way of execution. Seriha made more good points too so ill cut my reply here

I dont mind picking 3 main WSs, but god some of those WS are sucktastic...

Exactly. At 99 no weapon skill that we have to unlock and fully merit to be worthwhile should be any less damaging then the previous weapon skills each job has access too at lower levels. Weapon specific weapon skills are another topic all together.

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That is such a false argument on top of being a monstrosity of a weak point to boot.

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It isn't the least bit false, nor is it weak.Only the elite all merit the same things. Most people merit what they like most. Really- you think everyone out there merits greataxe, great katana and hand to hand, and merits WAR MNK and SAM before any other job? No, that doesn't happen. People merit for the jobs they want to play the most, not what everyone thinks they should do.

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People are "pidgeonholed" into a job based on what is needed almost 99% of the time

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Your statement has nothing to do with meriting. Even if I had WHM and it was needed a lot, I would not base my merits on it because it's not my "main" job or job of choice. People still merit what they want to play, even if the time comes they do have to play something else. The idea being that someone who bulit their meriting decisions on certain jobs can take the role, with the person who didn't have those merits set up can fill in if necessary. Very few if any merits are so vital to playing a job that they can't be played without them.

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people are as good as they are at the game reguardless of how many jobs they have or how few jobs they are asked to play, if you suck as war you will suck on any job that fits the bill of melee.

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That's a load of steaming horse poo. Being good or bad at any one job for a specific role doesn't automatically make you the same in any other job that can fill that role. I've met great SAMs that sucked at MNK, great WARs that sucked at DRK, great BLMs that sucked at SCH, great BRDs that sucked at COR, etc.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It isn't the least bit false, nor is it weak.Only the elite all merit the same things. Most people merit what they like most. Really- you think everyone out there merits greataxe, great katana and hand to hand, and merits WAR MNK and SAM before any other job? No, that doesn't happen. People merit for the jobs they want to play the most, not what everyone thinks they should do.

Your statement has nothing to do with meriting. Even if I had WHM and it was needed a lot, I would not base my merits on it because it's not my "main" job or job of choice. People still merit what they want to play, even if the time comes they do have to play something else. The idea being that someone who bulit their meriting decisions on certain jobs can take the role, with the person who didn't have those merits set up can fill in if necessary. Very few if any merits are so vital to playing a job that they can't be played without them.

That's a load of steaming horse poo. Being good or bad at any one job for a specific role doesn't automatically make you the same in any other job that can fill that role. I've met great SAMs that sucked at MNK, great WARs that sucked at DRK, great BLMs that sucked at SCH, great BRDs that sucked at COR, etc.

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what? where do people merit what they like most? last i checked no1 is going to play differently and say merit defender or go merit chr for some uber primal rends...etc. people ultimately always go with what is best so unless i am misunderstanding you your argument makes no sense to me, and as for what gets meritted first as i proved you wrong with my own example, not everyone goes by this supposed "fav job first" hell with the exp we get today we woudl merit everything in 1 go and literally merit all things first except the limit out limit points(punny)

..and the pigeonholed statement was in response to what you said before, you seem to be taking it out of context or something if you did not see how it fit

..and that last one you are either saying the game is hard (which i would disagree wholeheartedly) or that some people neglect jobs and do not gear them properly in favor of other jobs in which case then that is on them and they should not bother playing neglected jobs... whats the point in lvling something you don't care about?

honestly this argument has been done to death and i honestly don't care to start it up again. Some people think it is retarded to limit the WS and others think they add some magical pixie dust and flowers of uniqueness so whatever, neither side is going to pose an argument the other will agree on

I'm pretty sure Takedown had Warcry merits.

Count me in the group of people who find it retarded to have to chose between what to merit.

Personally, I wanted to merit the Staff WS for fun, It looked nice, But I chose Utility over enjoyment, I should be able to merit them all. They cost 100 Merits each to cap, If i wanted to work for near 1500 Merits, I should be able too.

Being able to play all 20 jobs but only being able to be great at a few of them is counter-productive. Maybe you guys pop a few off at the idea of being forced to be mediocre at something in order to be good at something else, But thats a thought process far beyond my understanding.

If i want to be great at everything, I should be able too. Especially in an MMO where the only goal is pretty much becoming more uber.

Honestly, One of my favorite things about FFXI is being able to change jobs... Play every job I wanted, etc. Being gimp on a few of them due to restrictions that serve no purpose are not fun.

BALANCE

Also, not to be rude, You can save your breath arguing against me, I'm pretty adamant on this stand point. While it'd be cute to watch someone try, If can play all 20 jobs, If i want to put effort into perfecting them, I should be able too.

Again, Especially in an MMO, Where pretty much the core goal is to perfect your character.

By the same logic of limiting merits, Why not just limit it to 1 Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean per Character at this point? So each of you can be forced to chose 1 job to have one for.

Inb4 someone agrees with my sarcastic last sentence