To Developers: Regen spells

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

I see the best utility for this as a duo situation. Lets say a RDM and a WAR fighting mobs that do between 70 to 120 damage on normal strikes. With Phalanx and Regen III/IV on the WAR, you effectively cut down on the amount of support the WAR needs to get by. And free's the RDM up to do what ever.

In end game situation I suppose it would allow melee to recover at a medium pace after getting hit from AOE's as long as there not being spammed. They might be helpful in keeping pace with damage in a RDM main heal situation, tho I wouldn't put much stock in that. The way I've seen it, getting a guy back up to max hp is imperative in end game fights. Mobs do such massive damage I've seen ppl go down when they were in the white with only 5 to 10 % of their hp gone.

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No you've got the gist of it. Regen is useful for low man situations, currently. I never saw the reasons why WHM got Regen Potency and Higher Tiers of Regen. It makes more sense for another job to be doing that while WHM is main curing. I'm assuming that is why they are making the changes to SCH. I hope that WHM's and SCH's merits get reworked to reflect the change.

I want Regen IV or better. It's not game breaking and we have tools to get more out of it, just like SCH.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

No you've got the gist of it. Regen is useful for low man situations, currently. I never saw the reasons why WHM got Regen Potency and Higher Tiers of Regen. It makes more sense for another job to be doing that while WHM is main curing. I'm assuming that is why they are making the changes to SCH. I hope that WHM's and SCH's merits get reworked to reflect the change.

I want Regen IV or better. It's not game breaking and we have tools to get more out of it, just like SCH.

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Pretty much this. I'd like to be able to hand our regens to slow down the HP loss that requires curing. Would be a good way to support our fellow WHMs.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

I want Regen IV or better. It's not game breaking and we have tools to get more out of it, just like SCH.

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/nod, you know some times I wonder if this healing thing is as much of a dilemma to SE as it is too us? They want to keep WHM as a primary healer threw large scale cure's, they decide to give SCH a higher tier regen to give them some type of uniqueness. And than you look at RDM and say okay what can I do next, borrow or give it something unique? At this point if the job isn't getting some type of new healing magic I would have to say some type of further damage reduction spell maybe in it's future. Like a spell that annuls damage that scales with our enhancing magic skill like aqua veil. Or reduce large scale damage for a set number of hits. Maybe a retooled phalanx II?

Sorry got away from the subject there.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Under double duration, it'd be what 1:57 hardly game breaking. Personally Regen IV would be nice, but I see no reason not to get at least Regen III. Two tiers less than the master (SCH) one tier less than WHM.

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I want Regen IV or better.

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We definitely need a Regen improvement, but I heavily doubt it'd end up like that.

Checking levels of all spells here:
Regen I - WHM21, RDM21, SCH18
Regen II - WHM44, RDM76, SCH37
Regen III - WHM66, SCH59
Regen IV - WHM86, SCH79
Regen V - SCH99

Regen II isn't acceptable at this point especially considering the buffs the other jobs - especially Scholar - are gaining in this department. I'd expect SE to at least give us the third tier and adjust Regen II's level. I get dumbfonded when I wonder why Regen II is learned 55 levels later. If anything, Regen III should be level 76, with Regen II at the "mid point" which would be 48-49 between 21 and 76.

My suggestion would be:
Regen I - WHM21, RDM21, SCH18
Regen II - WHM44, RDM49, SCH37
Regen III - WHM66, RDM76, SCH59
Regen IV - WHM86, SCH79
Regen V - SCH99

I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation/request, considering we aren't getting Cure V, and SCH's Regen potency is getting greatly enhanced (ie test server finding: Regen V is 64 HP/tick with Light Arts - at the moment; default potency being 40/tick), not to mention their 2hr improves Regen potency even more.

I think it would be totally kosher for Red Mage to have Regen IV. As the better healer, White Mage will have more potent regen spells. Maybe similar to Scholar in terms of potency per tier, if Cleric's Briault +2 enhances regen spells further. As the better enhancer, Red Mage would have longer-lasting regen spells.

As the master of regen spells, Scholar would have both. Of course, regen spells would still be highly situational and I have doubts that any changes to them will affect healing abilities as much as the planned changes to Cure formulas.

Red Mage should at least have Regen III. Although in this case, having the same tier (Regen IV) as White Mage won't hurt White Mages in the slightest, even if they don't have any of the crappy Regen gear/merits. Regen IV won't allow another healer to heal at a level competent enough to be enough on stuff you need a White Mage for - which is the very logical reason why other spells aren't given out.

Basically, I see no reason Red Mage shouldn't get Regen III, and only poor ones it shouldn't get Regen IV. Something like Regen III at 76, and Regen IV at 99 sounds like it could work.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

I never saw the reasons why WHM got Regen Potency and Higher Tiers of Regen. It makes more sense for another job to be doing that while WHM is main curing.

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I think the logic was that Regens (then) were more MP effective then cures mostly, and the idea was that the White Mage would somehow have time to cast what is essentially ancient magic when it comes to healing cast times.

Now Regen is not MP effective for White Mages, although SE is fixing the cast times after all these years. I'm upset that it is when it won't really help White Mage anymore that they decide to fix Regen cast times, years after the fact, but I'm not really sad to see them become more available to other jobs.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Of course, regen spells would still be highly situational and I have doubts that any changes to them will affect healing abilities as much as the planned changes to Cure formulas.

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The cast time change probably has the most effect, but yeah, I'm more interested in the cure formula changes. If SE had done that before giving White Mage Cure VI, we wouldn't have all these "give us Cure V" arguments, because Cure III/IV would fill the roles of higher tier cures currently, and Cure VI wouldn't exist to give people who don't know how to make sane or logical points a reason to argue for Cure V.

I just read about the casting time changes, and they are apparently drastic. Regen I seems to be 1.5 seconds. Regen IV looks be 2.25 seconds, which is less than half it's current casting time. Regen V has been reported as 2.5 seconds, which is half of Regen IV's casting time at present. It's a really pleasant surprise.

If the Development Bros have ever thought about expanding Red Mage's selection of Regen spells, now seems like a great time to do it. They're already messing with the spells constantly in an attempt to re-balance them for Scholar and level 99.

Oh, hey, I found the latest .dats on Julian's thingy:

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Regen - Gradually restores target's HP.
MP Cost: 15 Casting Time: 1.5 Recast Delay: 12.0
Target: Party Member/Self / Type: White / Element: Light / Skill: Enhancing Magic
Jobs: WHM21 RDM21 SCH18

Regen II - Gradually restores target's HP.
MP Cost: 36 Casting Time: 1.75 Recast Delay: 16.0
Target: Party Member/Self / Type: White / Element: Light / Skill: Enhancing Magic
Jobs: WHM44 RDM76 SCH37

Regen III - Gradually restores target's HP.
MP Cost: 64 Casting Time: 2.0 Recast Delay: 20.0
Target: Party Member/Self / Type: White / Element: Light / Skill: Enhancing Magic
Jobs: WHM66 SCH59

Regen IV - Gradually restores target's HP.
MP Cost: 82 Casting Time: 2.25 Recast Delay: 24.0
Target: Party Member/Self / Type: White / Element: Light / Skill: Enhancing Magic
Jobs: WHM86 SCH79

Regen V - Gradually restores target's HP.
MP Cost: 100 Casting Time: 2.5 Recast Delay: 28.0
Target: Party Member/Self / Type: White / Element: Light / Skill: Enhancing Magic
Jobs: SCH99

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

/nod, you know some times I wonder if this healing thing is as much of a dilemma to SE as it is too us? They want to keep WHM as a primary healer threw large scale cure's, they decide to give SCH a higher tier regen to give them some type of uniqueness. And than you look at RDM and say okay what can I do next, borrow or give it something unique? At this point if the job isn't getting some type of new healing magic I would have to say some type of further damage reduction spell maybe in it's future. Like a spell that annuls damage that scales with our enhancing magic skill like aqua veil. Or reduce large scale damage for a set number of hits. Maybe a retooled phalanx II?

Sorry got away from the subject there.

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No you are still on it. The point is WHM are still going to be the best bulk curers. SCH will be able to not only help WHMs, but do them one up on Regen so that WHM are going to say to SCH, "Will you put Regens on people so I can focus on main curing and any other aspects of my job?" The question is, what will the WHM and SCH ask the RDM to do? Phallanx is getting rusty. We could really use an upgrade to our damage mitigation spell.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I think it would be totally kosher for Red Mage to have Regen IV. As the better healer, White Mage will have more potent regen spells. Maybe similar to Scholar in terms of potency per tier, if Cleric's Briault +2 enhances regen spells further. As the better enhancer, Red Mage would have longer-lasting regen spells.

As the master of regen spells, Scholar would have both. Of course, regen spells would still be highly situational and I have doubts that any changes to them will affect healing abilities as much as the planned changes to Cure formulas.

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I wouldn't say they are highly situation at this point. The only time that they can't be useful is when whatever you're fighting takes the tank from 100% to almost dead, constantly. Otherwise Regen keeps people in better condition on average. Sometime that average may not be overly significant, but it will always reduce the amount of hate a WHM will accumulate over the duration of a fight. Thus a SCH is capable of protecting and insulating the WHM from aggro.

My guess is that what was found in the .dat files is what is going to be implemented. RDM is the poster child for, they gave it to other people even though it makes sense that we should give it to RDM. Most likely RDM will never go back to a significant healing roll. SE has made no indication that they will be addressing any of RDMs curing 'woes', only that they will be keeping it in line with how it is now and that it will scale the same as every other job when they redo healing magic. This isn't a big blow to some of us because mediocre healing was all we ever needed to get by, but to anyone that is trying to pink mage it up, this is a death sentence.