Casual FFXI

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Originally Posted by Hayward

People really need to get out of this mentality that game content needs to be out of reach of the "commoners" to be a good game. How far does that go before too many gamers just up and quit in frustration? The CoP era should have been the first and last lesson for S-E on catering too much toward the so-called hardcore players. Sadly, Aht Urghan proved they learned little about drawing and maintaining a casual base (see: Salvage, Mythic Weapons, etc.).

After so many years, S-E got it nearly perfect with Abyssea and now they're content to just throw that away in favor of pandering to a small constituency that couldn't care less about the overall game so long as they can feel superior to everyone else--in a video game.

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Nobody is pandering to anyone or ditching casual players. If they got it so perfect with Abyssea, do Abyssea. If Voidwatch sucks, don't do Voidwatch. Content that appeases the more hardcore players does not exclude casual players. It's perfectly simple.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

People really need to get out of this mentality that game content needs to be out of reach of the "commoners" to be a good game. How far does that go before too many gamers just up and quit in frustration? The CoP era should have been the first and last lesson for S-E on catering too much toward the so-called hardcore players. Sadly, Aht Urghan proved they learned little about drawing and maintaining a casual base (see: Salvage, Mythic Weapons, etc.).

After so many years, S-E got it nearly perfect with Abyssea and now they're content to just throw that away in favor of pandering to a small constituency that couldn't care less about the overall game so long as they can feel superior to everyone else--in a video game.

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When I first started the game, I was a casual player. I wasn't in an endgame LS. I didn't kill HNMs or do sky. Loot was nice, but I cared more about roleplaying a Tarutaru than the weapon sheathed on my side (yes, I ended every word which ended with 't' in 'aru'). I loved CoP. Sure, most of the people in my social LS (myself included) sucked and we wiped like 7 times on each promyvion boss, but it was something to strive for, and every step you made rewarded you. A slowly unfolding storyline, access to beautiful new zones, well-composed music, ordeals to overcome with my friends... THESE are the things that a CASUAL PLAYER cares about. A hardcore gamer cares about rajas ring, and everything about your post screams "I want all the rajas rings in the game".

If you claim SE got it right with abyssea, you cannot claim to be a casual player because abyssea was (at the time) an endgame loot grind with flat storyline, 3 new songs, and uglified zones (pink uleguerand? wtf). Casual players-- when they play an mmorpg-- care about the journey. You care about the loot. That makes you an endgamer.

So in response to: "How far does that go before too many gamers just up and quit in frustration?" Casual gamers don't care about the stuff that's out of their reach. They don't care that there's people with better shinies than they have. They are in fact, the hardest group of players to turn away because yesterday's endgame is tomorrow's casual playground. You don't sound like a casual player. You sound like a disenchanted endgamer who no longer feels the grind is paying off.

Trust me; more people would quit the game if next update gave everyone level 500 and ultra-upgraded super empyreans than would quit if next update released a ridiculously difficult neo-AV. There's no sense of fulfillment when everything is too easy.

Hayward honestly sounds like to me, either someone who started right before or during the abyssea era of FFXI and is pretending to know what is what, or he was someone who played back in the HNM days, and couldnt get ahead at all, thus he became a fan of the spoon fed element that was abyssea XI and thats why he is so adamant about how voidwatch and the game pushing back into the phase where things are harder and take more time, such as 95 empys, is wrong and the game should stay on easy mode. Little clue man, not everyone likes easy mode, a lot of us got tired of it with abyssea, most of us need a challenge again.

But yeah, as that one person said, who cares at the end of the day when you log off, if youre unhappy quit or find new goals, those are your only options in reality, aside from complaining on the forums about it.


Oh btw, i dont remember many people quitting over the cop/AU eras of the game because there were many different types of endgame to keep all types of players entertained and all came with adequate amounts of gear. So im really not understanding you man. What lesson is there to learn for SE in regards to content? other than they need to quit with the dumb low drop rates? The lesson they should of learned is that no matter what they do, people will complain, many with misconstrue what the game is off of their own opinions, you cant please everyone at once, that is impossible, Just because you do not like a section of content because its too hard for you, you cant find people for it, ect. doesnt mean its like that for the other 99% of the playerbase. Voidwatch is the only major issue i see people agreeing with lately here, the drop rates do suck, 95 empys coming from its flawed pool system is stupid, and it needs adjusted or people will not do it. and what will happen during that time? people will complain about it horrendously (Oh wait were here already) until SE does something about it if they even do anything at all, and if they do not, will people quit over it? Maybe a small portion, the ones that care too much about being the 'best' with an easy to obtain weapon that difficult to upgrade outside abyssea trials. The others? no, the sensible ones will leave them at 90 until/if something changes, or they will find new crap to do, cause like that other guy said, a 90 empy is always ganna be 3rd best under the other weapons or w/e it places, and above the non empy! so in reality it doesnt matter really, take your pills and relax my friend cuz Thats what FFXI has always been about and thats what it will always be, because as i said, NOT EVERYONE CAN BE PLEASED BY THE SAME THING.

I honestly don't think he and I disagree too much on this, I get the feeling it's mostly a problem of wording and forethought. What I want in the game is new challenges and rewards that make the challenges seem worthwhile. Yes, something that provides a fulfilling challenge to me and my friends in the game would probably be out of the reach of a casual player for a little while. But a game is no fun if it isn't difficult. I doubt he really wants to remove all difficulty from the game, I'm just reading too much into his posts.

Honestly stuff the casual player.

IF you want to play a Casual RPG buy an offline game, or an online shooter. M.M.O.R.P.G., Games was never made for Casual game play, But you can play them "Casually" in laymens terms: (At your on pace),. I can see it now a new member to join the FFXI Community asking a in-game GM to hold a NM cause your not going to be online and you want the game to be more Casual for "You".

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Originally Posted by Krashport

IF you want to play a Casual RPG buy an offline game, or an online shooter. M.M.O.R.P.G., Games was never made for Casual game play, But you can play them "Casually" in laymens terms: (At your on pace),. I can see it now a new member to join the FFXI Community asking a in-game GM to hold a NM cause your not going to be online and you want the game to be more Casual for "You".

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I like you

You nailed it bud. Play at you're own pace. It's you're money and I don't see anyone driving a whip to our backs saying "Do It Do It Do IT!!!" unless you're into that sort of thing, but I won't judge.

My only beef with the issue of Hardcore vs Casual is the ones that use bots vs. the ones that do not.
Basically, cheaters. cheaters who for some unlogical reason believe they are skilled players and know everything. On top of that, these same people will go and be-little, take advantage, mock, Ninja lot, or w/e else that may happen that cheats other players. Take away these bots/tools that these "experts" of XI use every logged in second of their gaming, and see how great they are. I've never used a bot, and infact play on the crappy xbox that has delayed loading times and all that great stuff. But I can say that I know what the hell I am doing in game. I dont need graphs, measurements, Nm popping locators, timers, and w/e you kids play with these days.

My point isn't to bring up a topic of Bots. I'm just saying that I as a gamer, and any other person who plays the game as intended, and basically anyone who doesn't run a back round program, is flat out better than you, who does.
I say that because SE will not.
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If you dont cheat other, tools or not, then pay no mind. Idc what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect others in a negative way.

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Originally Posted by Ryce

Casual FFXI player here. I have to agree with Vold. I've been playing since the NA release. Went to Sky for the first time earlier this year. Went to Dyna for the first time after the update. There is a TON of content that is simply out of reach for the casual player, and that's a good thing. It has kept me interested for a long time. I /drool over these pimped out players and think that maybe one day I'll have the schedule and linkshell to get some of that stuff myself.

With the level cap increase and eased restrictions in older content, I can finally go back and play that content that I always wanted to be a part of. Yeah, the gear is no longer the cream of the crop, but it was still awesome to get the killshot on Kirin my first time up in sky. I still love my lvl 50 Soboro. The CoP cutscenes are still just as good.

I hope there is some new content for me to check out in the future, but I still have a lot of catching up to do. I'm just starting the first Abyssea stage of my first Emp. I'm close to finishing +2 sets on my 2 favorite jobs. There's still a lot of game to be played. I'd rather SE give some challenging content to the "hardcore" players so they will stick around to help out us casuals.

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holy.../clap

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Originally Posted by Ryce

Casual FFXI player here. I have to agree with Vold. I've been playing since the NA release. Went to Sky for the first time earlier this year. Went to Dyna for the first time after the update. There is a TON of content that is simply out of reach for the casual player, and that's a good thing. It has kept me interested for a long time. I /drool over these pimped out players and think that maybe one day I'll have the schedule and linkshell to get some of that stuff myself.

With the level cap increase and eased restrictions in older content, I can finally go back and play that content that I always wanted to be a part of. Yeah, the gear is no longer the cream of the crop, but it was still awesome to get the killshot on Kirin my first time up in sky. I still love my lvl 50 Soboro. The CoP cutscenes are still just as good.

I hope there is some new content for me to check out in the future, but I still have a lot of catching up to do. I'm just starting the first Abyssea stage of my first Emp. I'm close to finishing +2 sets on my 2 favorite jobs. There's still a lot of game to be played. I'd rather SE give some challenging content to the "hardcore" players so they will stick around to help out us casuals.

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Wow. I mean someone that actually has an understanding about not nerfing everything because you don't beat it your first run through and have to overcome adversity.