Base Empyrean Weapons Need Weaponskills

Why is the main point of my post continually ignored? I GET it, Relics are hard to get and Empyrean weapons "are easy". Not really what this thread is about.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

It's not necessarily about Empyrean vs Relics, I was just pointing out, that by beating relics, they also beat pretty much every other weapon in the game. Meaning, they're the best weapons available. And a large part of that is not because of the stats on the weapon or even the Aftermath effect, but because of the WS. I also know that doesn't hold true for all empyrean WSs, but definitely for some of them. Having Ukko's Fury, Victory Smite or Blade: Hi available after a few days of soloable trials? Why even bother having other weapons then? Ok, maybe at Lv80 there's other weapons that would be them marginally, at least some of them, but the point is the same: something so exceptionally good as empyrean WSs should be earned, and I don't know if a few easy trials qualify for that.

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You essentially prove the point I'm trying to make about the weapon skill. Also, I've helped a LS mate get Empyrean Katana with Blade: Hi and have farmed up 23 sets of pop items for Chloris for my Empyrean H2H trial. That's a week straight of continually being in Tahrongi Canyon and that's not including getting people together to camp Chukwa, juggling these sets of items between mules dboxes, converting items to key items, and actually fighting Chloris. Saying you can get these sets completed and NM fought with a few days of soloable trials is extremely disingenuous as if you've done any solo work on them you'd know soloing it all is impossible. I'm EARNING the weapon and weapon skill, the person that takes the NQ route is NOT.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The WoE weapons are intended as an easier alternative (and an alternative for those without the abyssea addons) to the empyreans. It's not valid to compare the trials.

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This is a perfect example of the colossal *whoosh* that is going on in this thread. So the argument is that because Empyrean weapons are so powerful and easy to get that we shouldn't possibly think that the base weapon should be imbued with the new weapon skill. YET, the statement above states that the NQ path should get the new weapon skill (which is arguably one of the major overpowering factors of both HQ and NQ) because it's meant to be easy? Not sure how anyone can reconcile this logical contradiction. It is completely and utterly valid to compare the two trials when you consider the ratio of work done to payoff.

It shouldn't make a difference, really. Especially w/ your example.

Chloris took me two and a half weeks w/ mnk + whm.

Ulhua has af3+2. Farm key items w/ me + whm, shout for ppl for fight who want af3+2 (and who may have pop items of their own).

fangs took me 2 and a half days.

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Originally Posted by Cybernetic_Empire

I'm EARNING the weapon and weapon skill, the person that takes the NQ route is NOT.

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Just wow you ever did WOE? there ton´s of ppl usual that will lot also so you have to win lots and then you say they not earn the weaponskill. I realy wonder about what is all this.

I think before SE adds anymore weapon skills at all for any reason they should make them less laughable. The only new WS one I've actually SEEN people use is the war aoe WS and that's mainly for giggles or in abyssea killing frogs in la thiene in mass quantities.

I can see where the OP is coming from; I talked about this subject with a LS mate before. The first stage, for the most part the first 50 items is harder work then the rest of path of the weaponskill alt path.

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Level 80 Empyrean Weapons: Gain access to Empyrean weapon skills (such as Victory Smite)

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I do not see a reason to counter this argument, I do think the level 80 versions should have the ws.

If you disagree with getting access to the Empyrean ws sooner on the real Empyrean path, then the Empyrean ws only path needs the difficulty/time spent to be raised. Could make other changes like have that weapons D be weaker and such for the empyrean ws only path. The weapon skill only path vs the Empyrean path is not balanced with time/ effort. A lot of WS only weapons puts most relics to shame too, that path is way too easy for the reward.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I can see where the OP is coming from; I talked about this subject with a LS mate before. The first stage, for the most part the first 50 items is harder work then the rest of path of the weaponskill alt path.



I do not see a reason to counter this argument, I do think the level 80 versions should have the ws.

If you disagree with getting access to the Empyrean ws sooner on the real Empyrean path, then the Empyrean ws only path needs the difficulty/time spent to be raised. Could make other changes like have that weapons D be weaker and such for the empyrean ws only path. The weapon skill only path vs the Empyrean path is not balanced with time/ effort. A lot of WS only weapons puts most relics to shame too, that path is way too easy for the reward.

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My god, thank you you wonderful person you!

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Originally Posted by chibowibo

Just wow you ever did WOE? there ton´s of ppl usual that will lot also so you have to win lots and then you say they not earn the weaponskill. I realy wonder about what is all this.

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WOE is abandoned on my server...

You get aftermath + higher damage on Empyrean, so thus it requires more work. Walk of Echos paths are meant to be the easier path but not as powerful.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

You get aftermath + higher damage on Empyrean, so thus it requires more work. Walk of Echos paths are meant to be the easier path but not as powerful.

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Did you read the OP, did you read my suggestion of splitting the WS and Aftermath into two trials? In the case of H2H trials Revenant Fists +2 beat Relic weapons and are second only to Verethragna (inside abyssea). That doesn't sit well with me. For the amount of work Revenant Fists are overpowered. I doubt SE is going to take away the power of the Revenant Fists +2 so they should make an adjustment to the Empyrean path to make it right. I'm also of the opinion that Relics should be the top dog because they're more work than anything else. I'm suggesting ways for SE to "make it right" while everyone else seems to want to keep things as they are because that's the way they are and that's a horrible argument.

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Originally Posted by Cybernetic_Empire

Did you read the OP, did you read my suggestion of splitting the WS and Aftermath into two trials? In the case of H2H trials Revenant Fists +2 beat Relic weapons and are second only to Verethragna (inside abyssea). That doesn't sit well with me. For the amount of work Revenant Fists are overpowered. I doubt SE is going to take away the power of the Revenant Fists +2 so they should make an adjustment to the Empyrean path to make it right. I'm also of the opinion that Relics should be the top dog because they're more work than anything else. I'm suggesting ways for SE to "make it right" while everyone else seems to want to keep things as they are because that's the way they are and that's a horrible argument.

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If you are doing an Empyrean weapon it takes like maybe 1 week or less to do part 2, the point is moot since you will be there pretty quickly anyway.

The next lv increase should take us out of abyssea. Rev fists+2 are no longer superior to spharai once you take them out of abyssea.

Also, really, how long do you plan on having the lv 80 version of vereth? If you've done the work for Chloris, it's ALL downhill from there.

Both Ulhuadshi and Dragua both take less than half the work as put into Chloris.

I don't see the incentive to even worry about lv 80 versions of emps because nobody should have them very long.

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I'm also of the opinion that Relics should be the top dog because they're more work than anything else.

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Mythics are a lot more work than relics, lol.