[dev1020] Walk of Echoes Battlefield Adjustments

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Originally Posted by Camate

Thanks for all your opinions regarding the changes to Walk of Echoes

There were some questions both here and on the Japanese forums, so here is some additional info on what’s being planned:

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How many people will be able to enter?

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Same limit as now (36 people for each area).

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Will you be adding a feature where players can place individual rewards into the treasure pool?

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We do not have any plans to implement this.

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Will coins of ruin be used for something better?

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This all depends on the future of Trial of the Magians. We think it would be best to provide other uses for them.

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Can you please make coins stackable to 99?

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We are looking into this, but it is not something we can do easily.

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Please make it possible to exchange coins amongst other players.

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This would make the system too easy, so we have no plans for this currently.

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If you fail to clear the area will you receive any reward at all? Will it be like campaign union where even though time runs out you will still get a treasure chest after you have been evaluated?

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There will be no reward if you fail to clear the area.

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I’d like to know whether the brown treasure casket that everyone can lot on upon clearing an area will be removed or if they will remain.

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It will be removed. Think of it as all the items up till now will be either added or taken away from each player’s rewards.

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Will the contents of chests vary depending on evaluation?

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We are planning to have the number of rewards you earn vary based upon your evaluation.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Once again a bit more information in response to some concerns and other questions that have popped up…


If the group system is similar to the Campaign system style, will this mean that AoE enhancements will affect players outside of the caster’s main party (ex: blood pacts, accession, etc.)?
Yep! This will be possible.

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You mentioned that after the adjustments, depending on the ending evaluation the number of rewards inside the treasure casket will increase, but if the number increases based on a hidden ranking value this is pretty detrimental. (I want the hidden ranking value to be eliminated.)

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The evaluation is not a “compared to others”-type of evaluation, it is a fixed point evaluation system. We are planning to make it so you can increase the number of rewards if you surpass a specific amount of evaluation points.

As a side note, we will be adjusting the enmity system so that there will be less of a chance that a monster will come running towards you in the same spot that you just defeated a monster, we will also be adding a warning message.

Besides all of the things we have outlined thus far, there will be no other changes to the Walk of Echoes system. With that said, as some have been concerned about this, sacking monsters with a separate party will still be a viable strategy.

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People who get rated more points will get more drops. People who get fewer points will get fewer drops. The total number of drops is not set, but there are thresholds that have to be made to increase the drops. Support jobs get few points, so are less likely to meet those thresholds, and people who dedicate their time to sacing adds get even lower evaluations. In 1 and 3, where the aoe isn't much on minor mobs, support jobs can melee and get rated the sameas melees, but in the others, melee for support is ill advised. The sacing part may be eliminated in several confluxes with the enmity changes, however.

Also, they said no rewards at all if you don't clear the conflux.

With the lack of rewards without a clear, I can see the random solo people not even showing anymore, which will somewhat discourage leeches. However, people can still follow shout smn groups into 5/7, and can watch for when groups go and follow them in that way. They could make their own groups to clear the chambers, 2 is still very easy, and depending on the strategies that are found for the new confluxes to be implemented, may be able to clear those as well.

I don't mind it, and I'm one of those weird people working on Emps and still wants WoE weapons. For example. I do a lot of duo and trio work on emps, but our schedules don't always meet up, so we're slowly grinding through them. Other guys both wanted swords, but I mainly farm pops on Ninja. Jin sucks, I want Hi, but I'm not going to do a whole extra set of Sobeks just to have a good weapon skill for the job whose only purpose was farming pops.

If the coin drops are significantly higher I'll just get my friends to come and help me finish off the coins I need for the katana and be much happier for it. And hell, the new items might be ballin' enough to get people wanting to do the new zones. We'll see.

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Originally Posted by Chamaan

I don't mind it, and I'm one of those weird people working on Emps and still wants WoE weapons. For example. I do a lot of duo and trio work on emps, but our schedules don't always meet up, so we're slowly grinding through them. Other guys both wanted swords, but I mainly farm pops on Ninja. Jin sucks, I want Hi, but I'm not going to do a whole extra set of Sobeks just to have a good weapon skill for the job whose only purpose was farming pops.

If the coin drops are significantly higher I'll just get my friends to come and help me finish off the coins I need for the katana and be much happier for it. And hell, the new items might be ballin' enough to get people wanting to do the new zones. We'll see.

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I'm in the same boat, I have 2 emps working on 2 more. But I also need weapons for my PLD,RNG,THF,WAR and I'm not going to do an additional 4 emps. The WoE weapons fill the void really nicely. I've already finished Harrier+2 and dual boxed a majority of the coins.

The idea with the revisions is supposed to encourage people to band together to win the fights, since everyone who contributes to the fight will get a chest of stuff, but at the same time, they're snuffing out the people who specifically did WoE because they didn't need help to farm coins for a WoE weapon.

Since "leechers" will no longer be taking away rewards from the people who did the hard work, it seems like this is an improvement, but I still would have preferred private battlefields...

Wow nice this is lovely hopefully more people will do WoE so I can work on WoE weapons instead of Empyreans which are not even worth it.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Wow nice this is lovely hopefully more people will do WoE so I can work on WoE weapons instead of Empyreans which are not even worth it.

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wat.

9876..

way to break a broken system LOL


me and friend popped in several times to duo some coins and stuff for giggles and have never seen anyone else in the zone every time we have been in there or searched to do it. i agree campaign style might be a more viable option for drops and coffers. The current route is a mistake hardly anyone does it now soon no-one will do it at all.

they broke campaign promised to fix it at least few people still do that unlike WoE lol.

I don't see how any of this is what people wanted. This is like the worst combination of everything people want/expect out of WoE.

1. Individual boxes are still based on performance. Ever tried to campaign as a BRD? It sucks. While you aren't competing for 5 individual boxes anymore, your own performance matters just like it does in campaign.

2. No reservations + automatic RR = worst thing I could possibly imagine. If I have a LS event to farm money drops, any yahoo can come in and MPK us or whatever they want without repercussions (we can page a GM, but the event is already ruined by the time they respond). Organized groups don't want them, and have NEVER wanted them (it's less bad now that they're changing the way the chests work, but organized groups still will not welcome soloists). By all means, add automatic RR to ordinary campaign, but it has no business in WoE.

3. No more drops from individual enemies eliminates possibility of casuals ever completing their WoE weapon through soloing/duoing empty chambers. Now they are forced to ask for help or wait until another group arrives and leeches off of them and hopes they win. The WoE weapons are shitty enough that there's no reason to remove the upgrade components as drops. Removing them will only make Empyrean weapons more attractive, and there's already too much competition for them as is.

Who wants this again?

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Originally Posted by Cymmina

I don't see how any of this is what people wanted. This is like the worst combination of everything people want/expect out of WoE.

1. Individual boxes are still based on performance. Ever tried to campaign as a BRD? It sucks. While you aren't competing for 5 individual boxes anymore, your own performance matters just like it does in campaign.

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It could be an extremely relaxed eval system like Bastion. If coins are available from the lowest ranked slot then there will be no issue. I suspect you haven't done WoE on BRD because buffers were easily able to place.

The only jobs that were getting shafted were pure DD classes.

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2. No reservations + automatic RR = worst thing I could possibly imagine. If I have a LS event to farm money drops, any yahoo can come in and MPK us or whatever they want without repercussions (we can page a GM, but the event is already ruined by the time they respond). Organized groups don't want them, and have NEVER wanted them (it's less bad now that they're changing the way the chests work, but organized groups still will not welcome soloists). By all means, add automatic RR to ordinary campaign, but it has no business in WoE.

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While I agree that MPK certainly is a possibility, chances are we've seen the last of the random boss patrols coming to death points.

Though I'm no fan of the average schmuck coming into an LS run based on the fact most individuals fail to grasp simple concepts like backing up or getting away from a pull, if coin rates are sufficiently boosted then this will become a non-issue.

Besides, this setup is easier for an LS to deal with given that when you win, the mad dash to secure loot is gone.

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3. No more drops from individual enemies eliminates possibility of casuals ever completing their WoE weapon through soloing/duoing empty chambers. Now they are forced to ask for help or wait until another group arrives and leeches off of them and hopes they win. The WoE weapons are shitty enough that there's no reason to remove the upgrade components as drops. Removing them will only make Empyrean weapons more attractive, and there's already too much competition for them as is.

Who wants this again?

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Eh? SE claims the monsters drops will be removed. I guess you could take it as coins being removed but it seems like they were referring to the common junk that often dropped instead of coins.

The crux of this "update" rests on how often you get coins in your final reward loot. If it simply comes down to winning for a 100% chance at getting some type of coin then this update will be a complete success.

However if coins are removed from trash mobs and you need to score high in order to even see coins then WoE will be worse off.

They should just make coins bazaarable.