Job Adjustments Manifesto (SMN)

****Talking about the actual JA from SE at the current time.

So this is adding something new and technically a fix at the same time. Either way, this could be awesome or just be total fail....and again either way It's another tool in the bag this won't make cripple the job as it is.

SE's idea of SMN update seems pretty clear and you know is very hard to change the way they are working things out so right now they want to A) give us new avatars and B) gives us an ability that let us do more than 1 BP per minute. If you guys are just looking to only criticize ideas talking them down and not give actual constructive suggestions then SE will most certainly disregard this thread and give us whatever 'cause no one actually came up with a bright idea for SMN update. Let's resume and talk about what we want/need.

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Originally Posted by Razushu

SMN is a hate free DD though, and waiting a few seconds isn't going to shed 1/2 the hate from a predator claws. An ability that gives hate to the SMN isn't great. Your idea is fine until you start messing with hate, I always thought there should be something to do with HP cost involved for "Blood" Pacts. An Ability like yours is nice but giving the SMN hate would hold it back.

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You should re-read my post. I stated that <50% of the delay left, no hate on SMN. So waiting would give you no hate from Predator Claws. Not because hate decays, but because you never got the hate to begin with.

It is an attempt to please people who'd say "But if you spam Predator claws without getting hate, it would be unbalanced". And I happen to agree with them that doing 10k damage in perhaps 15 seconds, and then just resting MP safely would be a bit unfair.

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If you guys are just looking to only criticize ideas talking them down and not give actual constructive suggestions then SE will most certainly disregard this thread and give us whatever 'cause no one actually came up with a bright idea for SMN update. Let's resume and talk about what we want/need.

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I think we are pretty good at constructive criticism. SE should have a hard time not finding at least 2-3 threads on the front page with suggestions for improving SMN.

Only issue tends to be when we discuss original ways of thinking. But as long as we stay on simple terms like Perpetuation, BP timer and such, we all get along fairly well.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

You should re-read my post. I stated that <50% of the delay left, no hate on SMN. So waiting would give you no hate from Predator Claws. Not because hate decays, but because you never got the hate to begin with.

It is an attempt to please people who'd say "But if you spam Predator claws without getting hate, it would be unbalanced". And I happen to agree with them that doing 10k damage in perhaps 15 seconds, and then just resting MP safely would be a bit unfair.

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I would think the MP cost would be balance enough. 10K Damage in 15 secs outside Abyssea would be about 4 PCs which is like 700MP before whatever the cost for the upcoming ability is which could leave you on close to empty refresh abilities not withstanding.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Your way of shedding hate is waiting until more than half your BP timer has passed. It is just an alternative, not something that forces you to spam Predator claws every 5 seconds and die.

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That is a way of not accumulating the hate at all. It is not a means of shedding it. I don't see the point in adding hate to the SMN when we have been a hateless DD up until this point. It would also make the ability unusable during solo and make it harder for our avatars to tank in party. I see your point about keeping the ability balanced, but I don't see the need of adding hate to the SMN when there is already an increased MP cost to go along with the ability. That and the fact that I don't think the ability will even let us do a predator claws every 5 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Vangoh

If you guys are just looking to only criticize ideas talking them down and not give actual constructive suggestions then SE will most certainly disregard this thread and give us whatever 'cause no one actually came up with a bright idea for SMN update. Let's resume and talk about what we want/need.

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We are talking about what we want/need and I have not seen anything yet that has not been constructive. If there is an aspect of a suggestion that I do not like and I explain my reasoning then that has value. The idea that if you don't have a new idea of your own then you cannot offer critique of other's is very flawed. I disagree with Malamasala on one particular area. That doesn't mean that his/her idea has no value or that I'm complaining just for the sake of complaining. You also missed that we agree on other things as well.

The dev team is smart enough to figure out the issues we are having by seeing where/how we disagree. They already have a vision for the job. They aren't going to give us "whatever" because no one in this thread came up with an idea that everyone supported. That is overly simplistic.

i think they messed up with elemental trial stave's so they are trying to lower our mp with abilities. pet jobs are invincible inside abyssea but im a little worried about what will happen to Smn when they get out of aby...

cait sith and atomos dont seem like avatars that can follow you around well, so im guessing more 2hour only stuff. cait sith might be an alternative to carbuncle at least. he does do Holy in WotG mission, but he has more Blm spells.

i'd definitely be fine with a 2hour Bahamut. for Pheonix they already named the samurai from CoP's weapon Pheonix and it's back in the far east. they'd have to add a new area like they did with Whitegate. (could add the male mithra home too). honestly smn playstyle doesnt leave too much room for new ideas, just new spells :P imo

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Originally Posted by Defiledsickness

honestly smn playstyle doesnt leave too much room for new ideas, just new spells :P imo

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And this is coming from a BLU main lol. SMN has more potential than you think, and probably we all see this because we like the job and it's our main for some reason.

What I meant before is that the devs will most likely give us Cait Sith and Atomos just because they already have the dats for it, so if we think about it we should all just accept it 'cause we probably won't get more avatars than this.

About the hate thing...not gonna lie, it would be nice to have some sort of hate manager but I don't think that's our main issue or priority as SMN and we should probably get something more useful than a JA that let us swap hate or whatever. If what SE wants is to let us be more active in our role then I will again suggest something else lol. How about separate each BP's timer and make them have their own timer? I don't think that is too overpowered IMO although the MP consumption will be greater so maybe they should also lower the cost of mp when doing a BP. I mean what they are looking to do is to add an new ability right?

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What I meant before is that the devs will most likely give us Cait Sith and Atomos just because they already have the dats for it, so if we think about it we should all just accept it 'cause we probably won't get more avatars than this.

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I still don't understand their ranking of powers.

Atomos: The ability to travel in time, change history, remove monsters from existence, is OK to have.
Bahamut: The ability to command wyrms and use mega flare to possibly kill something close to you, too strong.

While I admit, a mandragora beating Bahamut would look silly. But isn't it the same for Diabolos, Ifrit, etc.? It isn't like seeing a worm defeat an avatar has been an issue in the past. I can't even count the amount of times Carbuncle has been defeated and resummoned.

Also, The level cap will not be raised, Bahamut will not be a summon. These are SE's words. If we ever get to level 76, we have a shot at Bahamut. And we are well past it. Now it is just SE hating on Summoner that prevents us from having Bahamut.