New Job Trait for Samurai. Bushido: Dual Wielding Great Katanas.

Heh, just had to put my two cents in on this one being a kenjutsu black belt. For those saying Samurai didn't duel wield two katana; I point you in the direction of Niten Ichi Ryu it is a style of sword fencing that was founded by The great Miyamoto Musashi. He according to which history you prescribe to had thousands of students, which are a whole lot of dual wielding samurai running around. In his style the second sword is also used as a throwing weapon. The style still exist and is practiced to this day. I got to go a seminar on it once it a pretty amazing sword style. Just some fun facts for yall to play with ^^

Since this would be different from dual wielding one handed weapons, idk, maybe make the delay a hard 480 or 500. As far as wielding blades like a Masamune, wielding it with one hand is do able, but would just be slower, but we got a few ws's showing one handed swings. But another balancing idea to impliment is to lower the base atk some and weaken ws dmg some, since wielding one weapon with two hands makes it stronger. My idea being weaken atk and ws dmg some in exchange for much faster tp gain. But thats all i can think of as far as the mechanics of it goes.

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Originally Posted by Wataruryu

Heh, just had to put my two cents in on this one being a kenjutsu black belt. For those saying Samurai didn't duel wield two katana; I point you in the direction of Niten Ichi Ryu it is a style of sword fencing that was founded by The great Miyamoto Musashi. He according to which history you prescribe to had thousands of students, which are a whole lot of dual wielding samurai running around. In his style the second sword is also used as a throwing weapon. The style still exist and is practiced to this day. I got to go a seminar on it once it a pretty amazing sword style. Just some fun facts for yall to play with ^^

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Thank you for that info i was having a very hard time locating specifics. and kenjutsu black belt= coolness d^.^b

Why not just add Monkey Grip and let all 2-handers dual wield?

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Originally Posted by Miitan

Why not just add Monkey Grip and let all 2-handers dual wield?

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But wouldn't a grip take up the space needed for the second weapon? D=

I think if anyone should be able to dual wield two-handers, it should be WAR. They're supposed to be the masters at the weapon.

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Originally Posted by Paksenarrion

But wouldn't a grip take up the space needed for the second weapon? D=

I think if anyone should be able to dual wield two-handers, it should be WAR. They're supposed to be the masters at the weapon.

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It was a job ability in Final Fantasy Tactics that let you dual-wield 2-handed weapons.

If you look at the way 1-handers are balanced, and this is from a development perspective, SE did something unique with dual wield that most other rpgs do not.

In other games, using 2 weapons doubles the number of attacks you can make in some period of time. This is a pretty common standby.

Dual wield trait confers two main advantages in FFXI (neither of which is doubling your swings).

1) Fixed percentage delay reduction (at the cost of TP per hit)
-- Starts at 10% reduction.
-- Requires a job trait only two support jobs can provide.

2) A second slot to reap bonuses associated with wielding a one handed weapon.

To a lesser extent than the prior two items mentioned, balance is achieved by 1-handed itemization...i.e. most 1 handed weapons fit into some spectrum of delay vs. damage based on their weapon type. But itemization is both malleable and transient. Malleable in the sense that the devs can and do provide unique items that defy conventional boundaries of a weapon type. Transient in the sense that this uniqueness is usually offset by "growing the game" in a way that minimizes the impact or disparity such items cause.

Your original suggestion breaks the 2 core rules of dual wielding and manages to violate the unwritten one as well.

Objectively, that makes your suggestion an unlikely candidate for implementation. Subjectively, I like it.

Here would be a more viable approach:

1) SAM is bound by the same core mechanic 1) as all other jobs (except THF and BLU) ... in order to wield 2 weapons, you must possess the Dual Wield trait...in order to obtain this trait you must set NIN or DNC as your support job.

2) Wielding two existing 2-handed weapons is a balance nightmare. The only suggestion I have for doing so would be that you HALF the damage, HALF the delay, and HALF any statistical bonuses conferred by the weapon. This isn't really viable.

I reason the above with the following logic...If you equipped 2 of the same GK with the above example, it would effectively be equal to 1 of the whole. You lose several things however. Namely: a slot for a grip and the ability to appropriately utilize job/item tools for creating a low-hit build...welcome to the world of 1-handers.

But you look cool doing it, which is really the only way you can boil down the OP's suggestion. Honestly, you can't get something for nothing in real life or in this game.

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Mechanically however, too many items have been hard-coded with special properties that cannot be easily halved. See occasionally attacks twice for instance. Because of this, OP's suggestion not only violates core mechanic 2), but also is impractical from an implementation standpoint.

Hence, using existing 2H itemization and trying to fit it into the 1-handed mold is basically a waste of time.

The axe:

The axe is the warriors answer to this quandary. But how many warriors do you see using axes? If you want to use axes, you are probably better off leveling BST rather than warrior.

3) The only way to implement something that suits the OP would be all new itemization.

Basically, you add 1-handed Great Katanas (so they use their existing skill). Axe is to great axe as these weapons would be to great katanas.

If you don't like that idea, take my advice and give up. Because frankly, none of this is going to happen anyway. But at least mine follows what has been done before. Whereas everything else I've heard up until this point sounds like someone who burned out on WoW cataclysm just got done Abyssea burning and hopped on the forum.

There are tons of things you can do to look cool in this game. Almost all of them will result in you sucking at playing your character.

Regardless, SOMEONE will always show up to a level 40 book burn in Novennial gear.

You make very good points, and very good examples, but you sound like someone who has been playing the game since before abyssea, so i think you will know and understand the following.

As far as war goes, using two axes was actually widely accepted because it put out more DPS than using a great axe, then came the two handed up date and the calculation changed for 2 handed weapons where 1 str and 1 atk became equal to 1 atk and 1 acc. Plus they implimented more great axes for war that completely nullified the idea to use axes, so now its completely better for war to use great axe.

As far as using the second slot to reap benefits from another weapon, right now the best choice is soboro. 2-3 attacks per round(unless you have the multi hit magian gk) is wonderful. If they add this to samurai they will just make a bunch more GK's specifically for offhanding.

My point being, as jobs are further updated, so does the game around it. I just presented the idea and many good supporting arguements for it. I wish i worked for SE so i could work on the idea in full, but they can in a way that would preserve balance. We can do godly shit now and the game is still well balanced. This would just add on to the tp gain mastery that is samurai, but not overpower it.

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Originally Posted by DarkBass

You make very good points, and very good examples, but you sound like someone who has been playing the game since before abyssea, so i think you will know and understand the following.

As far as war goes, using two axes was actually widely accepted because it put out more DPS than using a great axe, then came the two handed up date and the calculation changed for 2 handed weapons where 1 str and 1 atk became equal to 1 atk and 1 acc. Plus they implimented more great axes for war that completely nullified the idea to use axes, so now its completely better for war to use great axe.

As far as using the second slot to reap benefits from another weapon, right now the best choice is soboro. 2-3 attacks per round(unless you have the multi hit magian gk) is wonderful. If they add this to samurai they will just make a bunch more GK's specifically for offhanding.

My point being, as jobs are further updated, so does the game around it. I just presented the idea and many good supporting arguements for it. I wish i worked for SE so i could work on the idea in full, but they can in a way that would preserve balance. We can do godly shit now and the game is still well balanced. This would just add on to the tp gain mastery that is samurai, but not overpower it.

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Well I think it's a very fun idea.

And I also agree, when a game starts to wind down like this one is, it needs to be about finding closure to the journey.

Being obsessed over job balance issues at this point is a little bit short sighted, right?

Personally though, I like the Abyssea approach to adding fun things for every job through atmas.

Most of the better atma choices provide enough of a boost to allow all jobs to excel in new and interesting ways.

I do really like your original idea, but I would like to see them make it broad enough that it benefits more than just one job.

At the end of the day the best way to do this would be to leverage the existing game mechanics but add some freshness with the way these things were visualized.

Graphically there isn't much more to it than adding bigger looking weapons that could be wielded as one handers, and then throwing a bone or two in the form of 1-handed weapon options for some of the 2-handed users.

Almace is actually a good example of the ability to make BIGGER 1 handed weapons that still look good.

It can be done.

Heck id be glad to see multiple jobs dual wield 2 handed weapons. Just since most of the updates from sam are based off real samurai diciplines, i think its about time they add this to samurai at least.