Cultural Lotting Changes, now with no risk of being closed

Actually, I know of a few cases where JP players do the same thing.

On my server, a JP player lotted a morrigan robe 35 piece that he was told he couldnt lot.

The JPs did a "galka walk of shame" in Aht Urgan where they all made galka mule accounts with the players name in it and lined up naked down the path in the main area of Aht Urgan to shame him.

As GG said, the majority of rules are social ones. Dealing with them is a simple solution: Check the rules before you join a social group. If you do not like them, or you disagree with them, go find another social group. You're only bound by the rules you agree to (such as the game's ToS when you join, or a linkshell's rules when you choose to join it), so if you don't like something, don't agree to it and move on to find something more fitting.

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Originally Posted by katz

Culturally rules apply differently. Its ok for a German to march to the front of a queue. The English person would tut about it, the American person would complain about it. I agree social networks are fine if you all play by the same culture rules, but how many people actually think about other cultures when they write rules. Japanese culture doesnt publish name and shame lists, Americans love them. Japanese would feel the shame for the person complaining about the incident.

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Why would a German cut in front of everyone like that? That would cause a lot of fighting if you ask me.

English (or British) people would complain like everyone else would, Americans would punch you in the nose for cutting in line.

In case you didn't realize it, you are given the free option to choose which set of social rules to play in this game. Unlike most of the real world, where you are limited by distance and wealth and have to abide by the rules you were born into, you are able to choose who you associate with. If you want to associate yourself with known jerks, by all means, associate with them. Just don't be mad when other people start calling you a jerk in return.

Study Human Psychology and visit different parts of the world, and you will see that many people (Americans included, although they are known to be the most individualistic society in the world) tend to form niches and groups in their society. They wouldn't be in that niche if they didn't feel comfortable and accepted in that niche. Same as with this game. People accepted the rules as what they are, so they can work together towards a common goal.

As for your analysis of Japanese culture, while it is true that they don't publish name and shame lists, they do know who to not associate with, and therefor keep away from such characters. They probably can tell a thief better than anyone based on interactions with other players. And if you are basing your information about American culture by so-called "tabloids" and "entertainment venues" such as movies and music, you are just as biased as a Japanese person is against any Koreans and Chinese.

And Japanese wouldn't feel shame for the person complaining about the incident, they would generally ignore it. Personal observations myself!

A German would cut in front of everyone like that for the same reason a British or American person would. It's not okay to do so, but depending upon who is in the queue they won't publically grumble about it but rather seethe silently and very much complain to their peers later on. Though you might also get someone grabbing you by the gruff and dragging you back while pointing out, not to gently, that the end of the queue is the other way.

again as i posted earlyer the lotting system does not need revisions to give ls leaders the ability to change the lotting system because they already can and yes SE enforces this if you get someone to type "I agree" to your terms a GM will see this as a contractual agreement with that person and they will punish you for breaking that agreement if you need a GM to confirm this then call one in game and ask him yourself if you need to.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

In real life, if you cut in line ahead of 10 (or however many) other people, you aren't breaking the law. You will not go to jail for it. But you are breaking a social rule and you will upset people.

In FFXI, if you ninjalot an item in the loot pool, you aren't breaking the game's ToS. You will not get banned for it. But you are breaking a social rule and you will upset people.

If you keep breaking social rules, you will end up an outcast with a horrible reputation. Both in real life and in FFXI.

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Some social rules are terrible though, but people keep following them because they don't want to upset others. Like killing family members to preserve the honor of the family. Or the (soon to be completely gone) rule about no sex before marriage.

I think too many worry about what others think, and should just focus on their own lives. Which sounds like I'd promote line cutting, even though I don't. But you need to know which rules benefit everyone, and which rules are just fake.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Some social rules are terrible though, but people keep following them because they don't want to upset others. Like killing family members to preserve the honor of the family. Or the (soon to be completely gone) rule about no sex before marriage.

I think too many worry about what others think, and should just focus on their own lives. Which sounds like I'd promote line cutting, even though I don't. But you need to know which rules benefit everyone, and which rules are just fake.

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While I see your point and agree that some social rules are a bit extreme, for the most part social rules tend to be courtesy. If you're told not to lot on something based on the rules, then you don't lot it. Doing so makes you a thief. Now if the rules say "only my best friend gets X items so too bad. It's in the rules." then yeah, that's stupid. But with such stupid rules, you make the obvious decision and leave the shell for a better one. In a family you can't just leave (well you can but there's all sorts of headaches involved), but this isn't a family. This is a game made up of social groups. The situation is different here. :|

Again, if you join a shell, you agree to their rules. If you don't like their rules, leave. Simple enough.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Some social rules are terrible though, but people keep following them because they don't want to upset others. Like killing family members to preserve the honor of the family. Or the (soon to be completely gone) rule about no sex before marriage.

I think too many worry about what others think, and should just focus on their own lives. Which sounds like I'd promote line cutting, even though I don't. But you need to know which rules benefit everyone, and which rules are just fake.

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There are social rules that are bad, there are social rules that are outdated, and there are social rules that are open for interpretation. It is up to you to determine which one is which, and if needed, which one needs to be changed.

As for the second part, I think that too many people don't care about what others think. I live my life for myself, but I don't become a jerk to others to suit my needs. Quite the opposite, I will be kind with others because that is the best way (in my opinion) for me to achieve my goals. I help others that can help themselves. I ask for help only when I can't do something by myself. I'm self-preserving, and at the same time group-relying. What is wrong with that?

None, because your example is dumb since the person who lotted and won is not someone in his shell so he didnt agree to their groups rules. >_>

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Originally Posted by katz

So Valaris, you are in WOE and have made your linkshell rules and everyone signs up somewhere outside of the game that says they agree to abide to your rules. Someone in your shell lots and then someout outside your shell lots and wins. Which GM you going to call to say they cant lot

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If someone outside your shell lots and wins, that's just bad luck for you. They did not agree to your terms or agreements. Frankly I almost think the WoE lot system is a bit silly, but since larger groups don't generally do it, it tends to be several smaller groups working together for the same items.

Either way, they didn't break any terms or agreements because they didn't make them, so moot point.