Summoner ~ Updating Avatars & Elemental Spirits. Blood pacts, wards, and spell list.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

There is an issue with spirits?

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They aren't good pets.

I never got the feeling they were there for anything more than emergency interference/siphon. And other niche things. We have 9(soon to be 11 hopefully) other more powerful/useful pets, 2hrs aside. That are also in need of a buff. I'd rather SE focus on things to do with them, like increasing buff potency and their DPS against tougher opponents. If they find time somewhere to tweak spirits... fine, but it would be better for SMN if this was the bottom of the list when they think of us.

To make an analogy. Weak spirits is like a leaky roof. Ignoring it will not make your house crumble, but it won't make your house stronger. I.e. fixing spirits makes Summoner more versatile, leaving them alone lets us be as good as we are now.

Raz is a typical person who'd live in a leaky roof house though.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

To make an analogy. Weak spirits is like a leaky roof. Ignoring it will not make your house crumble, but it won't make your house stronger. I.e. fixing spirits makes Summoner more versatile, leaving them alone lets us be as good as we are now.

Raz is a typical person who'd live in a leaky roof house though.

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In all honesty spirits with limited use is more like the back fence needing a coat of paint(not badly just slightly overdue).

Weak melee(example) from avatars is more akin to a leaky roof in this scenario. I for one would leave the back fence another week to fix the roof first.

Whatever they do or don't to spirits it would never make someone summon them over an avatar(unless they're the type that insists on doing things the less useful way). Let's face it they're not going to boost the spirits in any way way that makes them near as good as our avatars(because they're gods), and as such this boost would be the equivalent of boosting the damage on "Iron Tempest". I'm sure the WARs would say "gee thanks SE, maybe you could have fixed something useful".

We have 9 great pets that fulfill all our needs at the moment, that could use a little love as is. Why would SE waste the time they could be spending buffing them on improving pets that we don't use anyway. That will need to be keep weaker than our avatars anyway.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

To make an analogy. Weak spirits is like a leaky roof. Ignoring it will not make your house crumble, but it won't make your house stronger. I.e. fixing spirits makes Summoner more versatile, leaving them alone lets us be as good as we are now.

Raz is a typical person who'd live in a leaky roof house though.

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Must be a really weak leak. I mean, spirits are ok as they are, they aren't made to be super nukers if you think about it.

I just like that fact that "potentially" you could have 2 nukes(NM) rather then 1 nuke(spirits). Yes, spell list longer but a bit of reworking could give use nukes from lvl75~99 range and less useful spells, enstone for example or Silence.

People would just have to work out the spell list of the dual nataure NM elementals in Abyssea. See if SE buffed their castings and what types.

Plus, since they already exist IN-GAME, how much harder to program them for player use?

Spirits are really just the C-grade choice in a SMNs arsenal.

They're not used for both the reason that they aren't good enough to warrant using, and also that they're not very convenient to.

For now, an Elemental's use is mainly in Siphon and then magic procs in Abyssea.
but then if we have it update its spell repertoire, (like adding tier V) it'll halve their use for magic procs lol.

one other problem with them really is their magic accuracy, which is kinda pathetic against stronger mobs. BPs have the advantage of skill over cap to help with accuracy but spells dont and have to rely on avatar: m.acc gear. damage is also affected by avatar: mab but other than these 2, you don't have much to work with.

With most of the new SMN gear putting focus on Blood Boon and BP damage, this marginalizes the spirits even more because they become even more irrelevant with mainstream SMN gearing.

but this is what I think can be done with elemental spirits.

1) update their repertoire (especially for elemental wheel) - tier V magic is a must. AM2 would be a (highly unlikely) bonus.

2) increase their magic accuracy

3) increase their MAB (this should naturally already be so because they're technically BLMs)

4) implement a way to control them indirectly.
...I'm thinking something like a new Blood Pact: Elemental category would work just fine.
These BPs would determine what stance an elemental would take.

eg and make-stuff-up fun.

"Smite"
-forces an elemental to cast next spell immediately

"Elemental's Fury"
- Puts elemental in a stance where it will only cast nuking spells (or in the case of Light/Dark, any spell that does direct damage from the spell itself)

"Elemental's Intent"
- Puts elemental in a debuff mode, or in the case of Light Spirit, buff/heal mode.

"Elemental's Balance"
- restores default casting stance and grants the elemental a mild regen/refresh.

5) Give elemental spirit's an Avatar Favor.
each favor could just be elemental resistance boost, but it'd still be pretty useful

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Must be a really weak leak. I mean, spirits are ok as they are, they aren't made to be super nukers if you think about it.

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They aren't made to be nukers at all, is the problem. They'll melee for about 45 seconds, and if it is a weak monster, it is already dead, and if it is a HNM, it has alread AOE silenced or damaged your pet.

I don't think it is too far fetched to expect a nuking pet to cast spells when used, rather than have them melee. The only pet I get to cast spells, is Light Spirit, because I do not have to assault it. (Assault is still bugged with it resetting the timer to max)

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In all honesty spirits with limited use is more like the back fence needing a coat of paint(not badly just slightly overdue)

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I disagree. The spirit problem is that they are not doing what they should do. Claiming unpainted fence does not do the role of a fence, seems incorrect. If you had said it was a chain fence with gigantic holes in them, I'd agree. You probably wouldn't worry about anyone entering through the holes, but the fence wouldn't do its intended job of keeping others out.



Spirits aren't really that important to fix, but it is kind of like 2 handed update. No job NEEDED 2 handed weapons. They could all work with 1 handed dual wielding. The issue here was that SE wanted people to use more weapon types. SE does however not seem to want us to use spirits.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

They aren't made to be nukers at all, is the problem. They'll melee for about 45 seconds, and if it is a weak monster, it is already dead, and if it is a HNM, it has alread AOE silenced or damaged your pet.

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Because you would sic a spirit on a HNM, right? Avatars wouldn't do that much more damage and you can control them better, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

They aren't made to be nukers at all, is the problem. They'll melee for about 45 seconds, and if it is a weak monster, it is already dead, and if it is a HNM, it has alread AOE silenced or damaged your pet.

I don't think it is too far fetched to expect a nuking pet to cast spells when used, rather than have them melee. The only pet I get to cast spells, is Light Spirit, because I do not have to assault it. (Assault is still bugged with it resetting the timer to max)



I disagree. The spirit problem is that they are not doing what they should do. Claiming unpainted fence does not do the role of a fence, seems incorrect. If you had said it was a chain fence with gigantic holes in them, I'd agree. You probably wouldn't worry about anyone entering through the holes, but the fence wouldn't do its intended job of keeping others out.



Spirits aren't really that important to fix, but it is kind of like 2 handed update. No job NEEDED 2 handed weapons. They could all work with 1 handed dual wielding. The issue here was that SE wanted people to use more weapon types. SE does however not seem to want us to use spirits.

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Honestly, I don't feel there's a "spirit problem". They really feel like they were added early on to give us more than Carbuncle. SE gave them a use after we obtain the Avatars, which is "Elemental Siphon". The only buff to spirits that I could see implemented, and not think why did they waste their time on this is, an ability that allows us to call an elemental of the matching element to support our avatar.

They follow the Avatar around for an extra -3 perp on the cost of the avatar, and provide them stat boosts(Damage +%, MAB etc.) and can occassionally cast a nuke on the avatar to heal them.

They are the unpainted fence, the slightly melted ice cream, the scratched windscreen of SMN. There isn't and should not be any situation where they come close to the power or usefullness of an Avatar. abuff to them would be pointless in this case, because you would be still spending more MP for a weaker pet that's now slightly better.

Nice avatar Raz