Why Make Jobs useless ?

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

4k+ inside every 45 seconds, plus buff the whole party is a moron.

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Do you really think this is a benefit?

4k+ damage = faster kills = faster EXP.

Buffing the whole party at a time makes the fights go smoother.

Do you really think that post was necessary?

I've seen every job be useful...it's not SE's fault that the players create unwritten rules that <insert thought-to-be-useless job here> can't be helpful in some way...in low-manning content, my friends and I have included a ton of various jobs, including smn, most of the time to great effect :)

I was more speaking of events and Content geared towards collecting Atma and cool gear ect. On my server even Pick-Up groups will rarely invite a SMN to any NM type group. And as for unwritten rules has consideration been given to the fact that they create the very folks who don't know their job often complained about? By accepting only particular jobs newer folks may feel compelled to go level those very jobs with out the time and support needed to really master a job. Maybe it would be better to welcome all jobs and allow players to put their best job forward. For example, I am a very inexperienced white mage but I can hold my own with any summoner requirements.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

4k+ damage = faster kills = faster EXP.

Buffing the whole party at a time makes the fights go smoother.

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but not really since it is 99% of the time never needed so whats the point of having smn there?
downsides of having smn:

1)you might have to share the drops with them. Since they made no meaningful contribution because you would have won anyway, you're essentially giving away your drops.

2) you may have to wait on them to show up delaying your progress

upsides of having a smn:

1) you kill faster, but who cares since you were gonna kill it anyway. You could kill faster with a lv50rdm too, doesn't mean you should bring them.

Extra bodies that don't make or break a fight are a negative effect overall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

4k+ damage = faster kills = faster EXP.

Buffing the whole party at a time makes the fights go smoother.

Do you really think that post was necessary?

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brd cor whm DDx3, kills faster than a pt of:

brd cor whm smn DDx2

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Originally Posted by DebbieGibson

but not really since it is 99% of the time never needed so whats the point of having smn there?
downsides of having smn:

1)you might have to share the drops with them. Since they made no meaningful contribution because you would have won anyway, you're essentially giving away your drops.

2) you may have to wait on them to show up delaying your progress

upsides of having a smn:

1) you kill faster, but who cares since you were gonna kill it anyway. You could kill faster with a lv50rdm too, doesn't mean you should bring them.

Extra bodies that don't make or break a fight are a negative effect overall.

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This is an excellent illustration of the point of this discussion thank you for posting . Seeing how unpopular jobs have to accept the collective attitude of fellow players, why not add some mechanism to allow all jobs to have an equal shot at abysesea? For example, why not add to existing ways to trigger weakness? Take blue proc why not add a corresponding bp as a way of triggering it? maybe Chaotic Strike during blunt time. Specific magical bp could address yellow. That way when a SMN is planning to kite Tonberry Lieje for the sash they could plan to go during blunt time. I only added examples for smn as I am most familiar with it but im sure the other unpopular jobs could have abyssea specific tweaks also. IMO since Abyssea in particular has the current best gear in the game its only fair to empower all jobs to form their own static and low man groups. Abyssea should be a fun playground vs a chore to get completed on a job one is not good at or does not enjoy.

There has never, in the history of FFXI, been a single Endgame event that was equally accessible and beneficial to every job in the game at the same time. Are some events more accessible to Summoner than others? Definitely. For a long time, they were the ideal DD on Odin and things like ToAU HNMs before they were totally figured out. Does that mean we should be changing Abyssea for them just because they're not necessary? No way.

Also, 4k damage every 45 seconds is not the least bit impressive and pretty much every DD on the planet should be doing tons more damage. It only looks impressive because most pickup DDs are absolute trash, don't grab Cruor buffs, and don't even have Razed Ruins.

This isnt SE making the jobs useless its the playerbase 90% of the time. SE has visions for what they want jobs to do then the players dont see the same for example a DRG with decent gear and merits can be a good DD however the gear (at 75) was hard to get, they needed things like homam and askar, because not many had this gear (and with the nerfs) people were saying DRG was a bad DD.

Another example of the players making unwritten rules was with NIN, SE intended NIN to be a DD, but the players found out that using both utsusemi ichi and ni and haste (gear and spell), they could keep shadows up easily, there became the unwitten rule than NIN is a tank.

I do feel your pain because my lvl 90s are DRG SCH and COR, which these days arent that great in abyssea, people dont want DRG cos it cant proc much, they feel they dont need COR buffs and its not great at DD, and SCH is the exeption because its SE not giving em c5 that makes people not want em, also they can only proc on T3 and 4 spells naturaly so people think they should just get a BLM for those procs.

In short yes there are problems with SE making some jobs useless but the main problem is the players wanting to do as much as possible with a smaller group, they just think if you are dead weight (not a WAR, SAM, NIN, WHM, BLM) then GTFO and lvl somthing useful, when in SE's eyes all jobs have uses.

SE should have made them more useful in abyssea