Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and WoE Weapons

Well, GEO and RUN don't have their "Mythic-esque" weapons yet.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

The question is, why?

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Maybe this is the issue.
A lot of times we ask questions and the devs, through the community managers, do not explain us why. They just give us very simple and concise replies which often become even more ambiguous because of the english translation.
Can't you guys imitate what Yoshi-P is doing a bit more?

When there's a choice which is generating a lot of lack of consense, could you please explain us WHY?
I mean, maybe there is an explanation which makes perfect sense and we didn't think of it.
Atm it seems just one of the many nonsensical things, and I can't see any good reason to avoid this change other than:
1) Things have always been like that and we don't want to change for the sake of things staying like that forever and ever
2) We don't want to give people too much motivation into doing RME, we are scared of too many people building them. They should be a far away myth that only a really really small bunch of people complete, not something for the mass. So the less motivation we give about it and the more difficult we make it, the better it is for the game and for our development plans in the long run

Is it something like this? Because really, I can't see anything that could remotely make sense aside from these (and they too don't make that much sense tbh)

Tbh I ask myself: when did we all become obsessed with RMEs?
Yes I include myself in the group because it's something I'm sincerily wondering.

5 Years ago only a small minority of players were concerned about them. How did they suddenly become a matter of interest of such a large player base? What happened?
Someone help me re-build the history that brought us all to this.
Back then RME were mostly unbalanced weapons, that wasn't a concern because there were so few of them it didn't really matter.
Their goal was mainly that of givinga far away, almost impossible to reach (for the majority of people) goal to look at, and something that would give importance, relevance, an "oooooooh!" effect to those few people who managed to get one.

Since when did it became a "standard"? Because not long ago, before SoA, we started ignoring every weapon which wasn't an RME and people started defining requirements for events by wether you had or hadn't an RME, sometimes even without good reason because some lv99 weapons were stronger than some lv 85 Empy, for example.

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Since when did it became a "standard"? Because not long ago, before SoA, we started ignoring every weapon which wasn't an RME and people started defining requirements for events by wether you had or hadn't an RME, sometimes even without good reason because some lv99 weapons were stronger than some lv 85 Empy, for example.

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started in vw with shouts askind only dd with RME dd i think, with how "easy" it was to get an empyrean (at least until lv.95 cap).

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I am just trying to make the point that its not truly fair to the other jobs. The first 15 jobs in the game have a massive advantage over the other 7 in the fact they can build Relics to 119 so easily.

For Relics. Currency is not hard to get, access to Dynamis is simple, there is no entry cost, the event itself is easy and has been since they changed it let alone with Adoulin tier gear making even DC mobs a joke to fight, the trials after getting the Relic are simple just like the Mythic ones, being killing blow trials followed by some NMs, then marrows, which are in no shortage today and can be farmed quickly(I am in a LS who does about 4~5 ADLs a night when we go) and then you have 300 items to get from Adoulin which has the same drop rate as the others it seems.

For Mythics. You have to complete any entire storyline, then every single Assault once, just to get Captain Rank to begin the quest. At the start of the first quest you have to trade in your vigil weapon from Nyzul Isle, which you have to do for the weapon in the first place. After this you must beat every Beastmen leader in Aht, every Chariot, and Odin. The Second quest requires 30,000 Alexandrites, 150,000 Tokens from Nyzul Isle, 100,000 Therion Ichor, and you have to redo every Assault again. The third quest requires you to get 3 items from ZNMs then do a battle against a NM, and finally get a CS that gives you the weapon in all its glory. After that, you have to do the same kind of thing as Relic, Weapon Skill killing blows, and then you have to get 3 items from Pandemonium Warden, which takes much longer to kill, is more out of the way, and takes a lot longer to get pops for than ADL does. After this is the same 300 item type of deal as Relics, though a different item.

For Empyreans. You have to camp 6 pathetic NMs you never cared about any other time which are lotto pops and can take many hours to pop and must be killed many times, which provide no challenge or entertainment. After this you must fight 3 different VNMs which are annoying to pop and take 1 hour to repop. After this you have to collect 50~75 items from NMs across 3 different Abyssea zones each with their own KIs needed to pop them. After all of these trials you have to get 1500 Heavy Metal Plates which are gotten at a 10%~ish drop rate from a few NMs in VW which no one does anymore, and then get 60 Rift items which come from only 4 NMs in VW, and have about a 1~3% drop rate, and no one does. After this is the same 300 items kinda thing as the other 2.

Relics are by far the easiest of these 3, only 15 jobs have that option, Empyreans are almost as hard as a Mythic now days because of the VW issue, but not quite as bad as Mythics, and these are only available to 20 jobs, Mythics are for all 22, and by far the hardest. There is no balance, all 22 should have access to 3 weapons, 1 of each class at very least.

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The only people who have an easy time making a relic are the ones with either no time on their hands or have aquired a massive amount of wealth in this game... I myself have spent the past 3-4 years making my relic and I'm still trying to get to stage 4 so don't tell me they are easy to make because unless you chose to level dnc and or are a thief you don't get squat for currency when you go farming. and alot of people can't be bothered to assist you anymore with getting your currency.

and I still find it hard to get into delve inside or out(mainly cause no one shouts for them anymore). Let alone trying to organize a group to go do these things these days *note if you don't have connections you don't get these items fast at all*

We all know mythic (contrary to what SE said) are the hardest to create but have some of the best weapons a job can use. and Empy weapons are just as accesible as dynamis. so don't give me all this crap about it being easy all REM have their challenges IDK why you constantly complain about relics not getting new jobs added to them when SE hasn't added new jobs to relic in ages. So I don't understand why this isn't the norm now....

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

Tbh I ask myself: when did we all become obsessed with RMEs?
Yes I include myself in the group because it's something I'm sincerily wondering.

5 Years ago only a small minority of players were concerned about them. How did they suddenly become a matter of interest of such a large player base? What happened?
Someone help me re-build the history that brought us all to this.
Back then RME were mostly unbalanced weapons, that wasn't a concern because there were so few of them it didn't really matter.
Their goal was mainly that of givinga far away, almost impossible to reach (for the majority of people) goal to look at, and something that would give importance, relevance, an "oooooooh!" effect to those few people who managed to get one.

Since when did it became a "standard"? Because not long ago, before SoA, we started ignoring every weapon which wasn't an RME and people started defining requirements for events by wether you had or hadn't an RME, sometimes even without good reason because some lv99 weapons were stronger than some lv 85 Empy, for example.

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It's because over time the requirements to aquire were eased up and allowed them to be more readily available for everyone... also during a period of time massive wealth was only in the hands of alot of people who had connections so the population who weren't doing endgame and stuff were starting to fall behind the *elites* so finally everyone started having one because they had money and connections hence why people got obsessed with it. It was also a time where it was a popular strategy to just throw bodies at an enemy so having a very powerful weapon granted you faster killing and increased surviveability cause people wanted you to stay alive TD:lr Blame acessability and meathead tactics to get things done.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Except that to two of the jobs in the game its the only option, and with Empyreans being the only other option for 5 more jobs, which is almost as bad as a Mythic.

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They also have easier than mythic option, which is delve boss weapons.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

Tbh I ask myself: when did we all become obsessed with RMEs?
Yes I include myself in the group because it's something I'm sincerily wondering.

5 Years ago only a small minority of players were concerned about them. How did they suddenly become a matter of interest of such a large player base? What happened?
Someone help me re-build the history that brought us all to this.
Back then RME were mostly unbalanced weapons, that wasn't a concern because there were so few of them it didn't really matter.
Their goal was mainly that of givinga far away, almost impossible to reach (for the majority of people) goal to look at, and something that would give importance, relevance, an "oooooooh!" effect to those few people who managed to get one.

Since when did it became a "standard"? Because not long ago, before SoA, we started ignoring every weapon which wasn't an RME and people started defining requirements for events by wether you had or hadn't an RME, sometimes even without good reason because some lv99 weapons were stronger than some lv 85 Empy, for example.

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The reasons are pretty obvious, 1. Too many people have RME 2. RME were too OP in pre-SoA era.

There's certain lv of difficulty content needs to maintain, the more RME owners there are, the more def/HP/eva mobs need to have.

If only 1% of endgame player has RME, dev doesn't have to make mob HP/def/eva as high. If 50% of endgame player has RME, they need to make mobs tougher or else the content would be too easy for majority.

Lv 75 contents are fairly clearable without RM, you usually see 1 or 2 RM per LS, do content with 1~2 relic members in LS. Also lv 75 contents are mostly open world or has cap much higher than needed, so you can throw bodies at the NM. Even if 1 person wearing AH weapon, it doesn't matter much.

Further more, lv 75 relic/mythic wasn't THAT OP, barring a few weapons maybe. There are plenty of alternative weapons that can do fairly well.

Ever since empy introduced the balance kinda broke, empy WS was too game changing at that point of time, and it's fairly easy to obtain, so it became must have. As more and more players got RME, dev needs to make the content more difficult or else a group of RME DD will make the content too easy. That made none RME DD kinda not competitive.

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Originally Posted by Umichi

The only people who have an easy time making a relic are the ones with either no time on their hands or have aquired a massive amount of wealth in this game... I myself have spent the past 3-4 years making my relic and I'm still trying to get to stage 4 so don't tell me they are easy to make because unless you chose to level dnc and or are a thief you don't get squat for currency when you go farming. and alot of people can't be bothered to assist you anymore with getting your currency.

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The difficulty is based on most popular way to do it. Most ppl farm currency on BST BLU THF DNC PUP, if you choose not to farm currency on none TH jobs with JA proc for w/e reason, it's your own issue for being the minority. Just because YOU choose to do it on other job, doesn't make it hard, because every 1 person farming currency on other jobs, there are 99 more ppl farming on BST BLU DNC PUP THF. You're just making it harder by purposly choosing other jobs.

It's like saying killing lair reives in SoA is hard, because I try to solo it on WAR/SAM and I got ass kicked without heals. That doesn't mean lair reives are hard, as plenty of jobs can solo it.

Relics 99 far out number the empyrean and mythic 99 because it was a lot harder to 99 those 2 compared o relics. Making the 119 part the hardest because more people are buying the relic items and they go for the highest price. We have like 500k relic items vs 150-200k empyrean/mythic items.

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Originally Posted by Afania

They also have easier than mythic option, which is delve boss weapons.

The reasons are pretty obvious, 1. Too many people have RME 2. RME were too OP in pre-SoA era.

There's certain lv of difficulty content needs to maintain, the more RME owners there are, the more def/HP/eva mobs need to have.

If only 1% of endgame player has RME, dev doesn't have to make mob HP/def/eva as high. If 50% of endgame player has RME, they need to make mobs tougher or else the content would be too easy for majority.

Lv 75 contents are fairly clearable without RM, you usually see 1 or 2 RM per LS, do content with 1~2 relic members in LS. Also lv 75 contents are mostly open world or has cap much higher than needed, so you can throw bodies at the NM. Even if 1 person wearing AH weapon, it doesn't matter much.

Further more, lv 75 relic/mythic wasn't THAT OP, barring a few weapons maybe. There are plenty of alternative weapons that can do fairly well.

Ever since empy introduced the balance kinda broke, empy WS was too game changing at that point of time, and it's fairly easy to obtain, so it became must have. As more and more players got RME, dev needs to make the content more difficult or else a group of RME DD will make the content too easy. That made none RME DD kinda not competitive.





The difficulty is based on most popular way to do it. Most ppl farm currency on BST BLU THF DNC PUP, if you choose not to farm currency on none TH jobs with JA proc for w/e reason, it's your own issue for being the minority. Just because YOU choose to do it on other job, doesn't make it hard, because every 1 person farming currency on other jobs, there are 99 more ppl farming on BST BLU DNC PUP THF. You're just making it harder by purposly choosing other jobs.

It's like saying killing lair reives in SoA is hard, because I try to solo it on WAR/SAM and I got ass kicked without heals. That doesn't mean lair reives are hard, as plenty of jobs can solo it.

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I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing just because it makes it easier I do not enjoy playing those jobs so why should I be forced to level them just to have an "Easier" time. Remember this game is about being who you want to be. Not everyone wants to or has caped every job at 99 and the expectation that you have to or stop playing this game in this era of gameplay is ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Relics 99 far out number the empyrean and mythic 99 because it was a lot harder to 99 those 2 compared o relics. Making the 119 part the hardest because more people are buying the relic items and they go for the highest price. We have like 500k relic items vs 150-200k empyrean/mythic items.

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Not true, Mythic Trials to 99 were far easier then relic or empy. Maybe with Ilvl gear now that may not be the case, but T3/4 ZNM kills and PW were far easier to do then ADL was. I could solo up to T3 pops for ZNM on drg and maybe even kill some of the T3. T4 could be done with a couple bst. PW could be done easy with a pickup alliance.

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Originally Posted by Umichi

I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing just because it makes it easier I do not enjoy playing those jobs so why should I be forced to level them just to have an "Easier" time. Remember this game is about being who you want to be. Not everyone wants to or has caped every job at 99 and the expectation that you have to or stop playing this game in this era of gameplay is ludicrous.

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You know, my work is about 7 miles away from my home. It's a short and easy drive that takes about 20 minutes; 30 in rush hour traffic. If I chose to walk there, it'd take hours. If I chose to walk there, I wouldn't have much right to complain because I willingly took a harder route for no reason other than stubborness and a desire to be different.

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Originally Posted by Umichi

I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing just because it makes it easier I do not enjoy playing those jobs so why should I be forced to level them just to have an "Easier" time. Remember this game is about being who you want to be. Not everyone wants to or has caped every job at 99 and the expectation that you have to or stop playing this game in this era of gameplay is ludicrous.

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Being who you want to be or how you want to do stuff doesn't change the difficulty though. Difficulty of something is not depend on how you do things, but how majority of ppl do things.


I can try to beat a single player RPG at lv 1, skip every battle on the way and purposely not to lv up, then tell everyone how I wipe over and over at the boss and this game is hard. But that doesn't mean everyone else who play the game properly with proper lv will wipe over and over again at the boss. I choose to play the game in hard mode, doesn't make the game hard. Or else anyone can just play the game in hardmode and pretend the game is hard.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

You know, my work is about 7 miles away from my home. It's a short and easy drive that takes about 20 minutes; 30 in rush hour traffic. If I chose to walk there, it'd take hours. If I chose to walk there, I wouldn't have much right to complain because I willingly took a harder route for no reason other than stubborness and a desire to be different.

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Problem is I'm not complaining so get out of here with your talk.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Being who you want to be or how you want to do stuff doesn't change the difficulty though. Difficulty of something is not depend on how you do things, but how majority of ppl do things.


I can try to beat a single player RPG at lv 1, skip every battle on the way and purposely not to lv up, then tell everyone how I wipe over and over at the boss and this game is hard. But that doesn't mean everyone else who play the game properly with proper lv will wipe over and over again at the boss. I choose to play the game in hard mode, doesn't make the game hard. Or else anyone can just play the game in hardmode and pretend the game is hard.

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Having every job at lvl 99 or expecting people to have these jobs because "Thats how the majority plays" is not how I viewed this game being played and I'm sure it wasn't the intention of the creators to expect everyone to have these jobs in order to do the content seemlessly... I'm not here complaining about why it's taking me such a long time I'm just saying that the average player who doesn't have one of the jobs listed lvld still has a varying degree of difficulty in obtaining these weapons. I'm publishing my experience with building a relic by playing a job I love playing and everyone gets on me about stupid scenarios and how I'm intentionally playing hardmode and complaining it's hardmode....... because I'm not. I'm playing the game.

I'm telling you that the difficulty in obtaining these Items is still there just the vast majority of people decided that like any other typical MMO they wanted the shortest path. I don't enjoy playing those jobs, why am I the bad guy because you think it's the norm that everyone should have these jobs lvld or GTFO?

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Originally Posted by Umichi

The only people who have an easy time making a relic are the ones with either no time on their hands or have aquired a massive amount of wealth in this game... I myself have spent the past 3-4 years making my relic and I'm still trying to get to stage 4 so don't tell me they are easy to make because unless you chose to level dnc and or are a thief you don't get squat for currency when you go farming. and alot of people can't be bothered to assist you anymore with getting your currency.

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I disagree with this.
I'm not massively wealthy, I don't have a ton of time on my hands, and i don't even have a job above Lv 90. And i'm still able to make a relic weapon, granted it's with considerable help from a friend who's been really nice to me, but when 99% of the servers have at least 1 Lv 99, if not 10-20 with insane aboulin gear, it's not hard to get a relic weapon. Last night after buying coins with what i had, I'm almost done with stage 3 (56/61 silver pieces.) then i just need the r/e item from icelands (which admittedly, will likely delay me by 4 days, because I don't yet have those wins.)

So don't tell me relics are hard to make. The only hard part is killing the NM for the stage 3 and 4 items. It's just time consuming to build, but tell me worth while weapons in FFXI that aren't.

Had I not had help, I was still able to do dynamis at Lv 80, just slow and tedious, but possible. At 80 nin with a whm support, I got 20 coins. Imagine what a 90 could do, most people can see the coin drops with a 99+, esp those with thf or dnc. But almost any melee job can do dynamis efficiently. My friend goes mnk/dnc and we still average around 150.

I maybe an exception with help, but not with completing it.
As I said, a vast majority if the players are Lv 99 in at least 1 job, likely a lot of them, so you can't tell me dynamis isn't hard to do. Unless of course, 150+ coins is "squat for currency," but 150 seems like a lot to me, and it's gotten me where i am now with what bits of money I can get myself.

As for time, I've got a 6 month old baby in the house and still able to get it done, each run isn't that time consuming in itself, though the whole task is, a lot of people do it with jobs and school and more problems then i have to deal with (And better levels and gear.) And just for the record, I don't just sit at the outpost and leech coins, I go on my pup and help.

Relic weapons are easily the most accessible weapons in the game.
But I agree with Demon, relic weapons should be open to all the jobs in the game. Expand the amount of weapons able to be made if needed, but don't just not give them to the other jobs. Besides, it's not like you've not given old school stuff to other jobs, abiet only a few. Pup for example, can use hope staff. From sea, which is almost as old as dynamis. And nobody even knows why yet.

p.s. I kind of wish all the old school stuff had the new jobs added to the lists Tbh. Pup with faith claws? could be fun :P
Wonder if they'll ever update that old sky/sea gear to ilevels and add the new jobs to the lists?

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Originally Posted by Umichi

Problem is I'm not complaining so get out of here with your talk.

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Yes, you are. There's no two ways about it.

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Originally Posted by Umichi

The only people who have an easy time making a relic are the ones with either no time on their hands or have aquired a massive amount of wealth in this game... I myself have spent the past 3-4 years making my relic and I'm still trying to get to stage 4 so don't tell me they are easy to make because unless you chose to level dnc and or are a thief you don't get squat for currency when you go farming. and alot of people can't be bothered to assist you anymore with getting your currency.

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I created my Spharai in about 5 months, mostly solo. I farmed every day for 2 hours. Most days, those 2 hours of farming were the only thing I did (some days I stuck around and did other in game stuff). I got into a pickup group working on one of the 85 to 90 magian trials and picked up my Attestation. A THF friend helped me farm the base piece, though I could have done that solo too if I wanted. Aside from those 2 sessions, it was all solo. Of course, I did it on BST. I guess it was easy because I didn't intentionally hobble myself by, like, not learning about procs or going in as WAR/MNK or something.

Your observations are based on faulty information, and so your conclusion is flawed.

I get the feeling that you seriously don't understand how the proc system works in Dynamis. That's the only way you could take 3-4 years to build a relic, even if you were on a job not optimized for farming.

Ok so lets addendum what I said then... I believe I used that right...


It's takes less time to make a REM When you have connections, any of the jobs listed that can easily obtain currencies at a rapid and proficient rate, have wealth, and/or*(*read after every coma) a lot of time on your hands.

The only thing that makes relics easier than the others is for the simple fact that it is in the oldest content... Although updated it's still doable.. and the same can be said for the other two types of ancient and powerful weapons also. Although their difficulty to obtain is still higher just for the simple fact that they are in harder content....

With proper guidance from an experienced player anyone can get these weapons on their own or with a small group of people.. Problem is there are alot of experienced players who have everything in the dang game... Then you have people like me.. I don't really have connections due to the way I play (and my time spent playing these days) and I know the content so I can easily solo most of it albiet as you said at a tedious rate. I don't make much money but I know how to make a mint and lately I've been hitting one-million if I tried hard (in the older days I could never get that much lol..) Not a lot of people shout for stuff outside of items for sale and sometimes highend content.

Most people are to busy doing their own thing since the content is solo-able. We have a majority population that plays a specific way and has better access to a lot more things via third party tools, or through the loophole SE provided us unofficially/officially or both.. I just play bare bones no extra accounts (Although I do have a few extra characters I work on and I only share my armor and gil with them that I turn on occasionally on the same PoLID)... Not a lot of people shout for stuff outside of items for sale and sometimes highend content. My linkshell I'm currently with is just now ramping up to do the content in the game. We finally designated people to specific areas of content in the game. Most of the leaders can't or don't have the expansion. so I'm excited for us to finally start recruiting and training people!

I like playing as Drg/whm I dabble in a lot of other jobs but I only have two jobs at 99 and not alot above level 50. Playing how I want is fun and SE encourages that kind of good gamesmanship... However a lot of people frown upon this kind of thinking and I don't enjoy that because they always tell me how I'm playing the game wrong or I should play it a certain way. I'm really only interested in playing as a Drg...

Not a lot of people shout for stuff outside of items for sale and sometimes highend content. My linkshell I'm currently with is just now ramping up to do the content in the game. We finally designated people to specific areas of content in the game. Most of the leaders can't or don't have the expansion. so I'm excited for us to finally start recruiting and training people!

Is that better? I hope that what I said was insightful into how I play my game and alot more clearly written out to I'd tell you my lifestyle but that's personal and this is the internet >_>

They just came out and said they don't intend to at this time. While I wish that maybe someday they might be on them so everyone can play with them I am not holding my breath as they already said they weren't crafted around the jobs that can use them. So how they decide to do it is up to them

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Originally Posted by Umichi

Having every job at lvl 99 or expecting people to have these jobs because "Thats how the majority plays" is not how I viewed this game being played and I'm sure it wasn't the intention of the creators to expect everyone to have these jobs in order to do the content seemlessly... I'm not here complaining about why it's taking me such a long time I'm just saying that the average player who doesn't have one of the jobs listed lvld still has a varying degree of difficulty in obtaining these weapons. I'm publishing my experience with building a relic by playing a job I love playing and everyone gets on me about stupid scenarios and how I'm intentionally playing hardmode and complaining it's hardmode....... because I'm not. I'm playing the game.

I'm telling you that the difficulty in obtaining these Items is still there just the vast majority of people decided that like any other typical MMO they wanted the shortest path. I don't enjoy playing those jobs, why am I the bad guy because you think it's the norm that everyone should have these jobs lvld or GTFO?

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I didn't say a word about whether you're good or bad, or whether you should GTFO or not. I only said you can't represent everyone else because you choose to do slow way....if you want to do slow way, fine. But don't pop on the forum and tell everyone relic is slow and hard because you CHOOSE to be slower than everyone else.

I'm just saying difficulty is based on avg player's timespent, not minority. Appearantly you're minority. Most of the ppl who activatly working on a relic takes less than 3~4 years. Unless they play on and off, or not full time working on a relic and work on relic as a side project when they have time. If you're the minority/not avg, don't try to represent everyone else.

It took me about 3.5 years to make my Mythic starting from 0, but I do it as a side project and farmed other items/empy 99 in those 3.5 years, so my time spent on it is longer than many other people. That doesn't mean I'd pop on forum and telling everyone Mythic is 3.5 years of work. Plenty of ppl finishd it in 1 year or even less. I don't make 3.5 year a norm because just because I spent 3.5 years, I can't represent everyone else.

waiting on relic updates anyone know when SE will work hard for that yet?
Well the prices are gone down for those currency O.o

Some weapons still need some minor changes to their quest at least to be realistic at this point in the game. I built my empryean back during the Scars era and upgraded it all the way to 90 I wasn't able to upgrade it past that because of the requirements, and lack of being able to get into a group that actually did VW.

Plates are still difficult to obtain it would be great if more ways to obtain plates were added or it was changed in some way or another to at least be reasonable to work toward again before the game is shutdown.

Possibly even similar changes to Mythics as well, the majority of relics can be solo'd or low manned.

To be fair, the majority of Mythic work can be soloed too. They've made changes to the worst of the Assaults, extended the timer for Einherjar, and Nyzul/Salvage are already soloable. Empyreans do need a bit of a pick-up, being left behind as they are and tied to the content they are, but Mythics are in a pretty good spot now.

So, has the RME upgrade been scrapped, or is that going to come sometime before March?

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Originally Posted by machini

So, has the RME upgrade been scrapped, or is that going to come sometime before March?

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

The development team is planning to strengthen Relic, Mythic, Empyrean and Ergon weapons once the Aeonic weapons have been implemented.

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It's still in the works for now.

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Originally Posted by machini

So, has the RME upgrade been scrapped, or is that going to come sometime before March?

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Fear not, the upgrades to Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons are still coming! The development team is not only adding stat upgrades, but also making event-related adjustments (not quests, but text-related to upgrading), and adjustments to certain Aftermaths.

This work will take a bit more time, but it is underway!

I will remain ever curious.
While my Nirvana has little to worry about, I do kinda hope for my Spharai to get a major improvement as they have been outclassed by several other non-RME options in the recent past. Quite severely to add.
As I invested a lot of time and gil in those too, I do hope my Golden Fists of PAIN will be deserving of that name again.

hopefully they'll do something awesome with claustrum. I would settle for making the Magic Damage + applicable to avatars.

I'm afraid that will always be the "Why on earth did you ever make that weapon" weapon.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Fear not, the upgrades to Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons are still coming! The development team is not only adding stat upgrades, but also making event-related adjustments (not quests, but text-related to upgrading), and adjustments to certain Aftermaths.

This work will take a bit more time, but it is underway!

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Really looking forward to these epic updates where RME's will be usable for all jobs and not just pretty on our mannequins! :)

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Fear not, the upgrades to Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons are still coming! The development team is not only adding stat upgrades, but also making event-related adjustments (not quests, but text-related to upgrading), and adjustments to certain Aftermaths.

This work will take a bit more time, but it is underway!

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how about adjusting a few one the WSs too, like how Atonement is still super weak, and you can't say its a reliable source of damage because since it was added there are many mobs that will erase hate and make the WS do very little dmg or nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by Ulth

How funny would it be if heavy metal plates were supposed to drop from voidwalker nms this whole time and the developers just didn't know it was never put in.

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That would hilarious but at the same time upsetting. In any case, the drop rate would had to be increase and all the items presenting a chance to drop from those voidwalker nms for anyone wanting to pursue them again.

In response to Grekumah's comment, using the login points for those items sounds good in theory, but unfortunately that will not work at all. There's been discussions on the type of items available and duration of the login campaigns that wasn't pleasant. Also, it will just aggravate the situation more. The players don't mind putting in the work to build their weapons, but you have to keep in mind that it is a lot more work and time than it needs to be. Obtaining 1500 HMPs, and 60 Riftdross/Riftcinders with the current drop rate and availability prevents us from completing our weapons.

If you can pull the numbers, you will notice there are way too many players with empyrean weapons across all servers that have not passed lvl 90 since the day they've reached. We are talking these same people who've been looking forward to upgrade their weapons for years because of the availability of items and drop rate. This is a real issue that inhabiting players to from enjoying the full environment of the game and access of items to help with our adventures and achievements in Vana'diel. Please advise the development team for a solutions to help us come closer in achieving the players goals in completing our weapons. Thank you.

PS: It would be best to implement a solution before or with the RME upgrade that is coming soon.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

I will remain ever curious.
While my Nirvana has little to worry about, I do kinda hope for my Spharai to get a major improvement as they have been outclassed by several other non-RME options in the recent past. Quite severely to add.
As I invested a lot of time and gil in those too, I do hope my Golden Fists of PAIN will be deserving of that name again.

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I'm all for balance and Spharai being great, please however don't sell SMN's only ultimate weapon that boosts avatar stats short. While it is currently best for physical pacts and flaming crush it is entirely outclassed by staves with a lot of pet mab for magic pacts, and our physical pacts outside of flaming crush on lower level targets have very hard times doing DD like damage and they were at one time SMN's best pacts. I just worry that if you say it's fine, devs might take that to heart and SMN would be left far behind indeed with these upgraded REM other jobs are getting. My fear is they don't increase the avatar aspect of nirvana much, and only increase its melee stats so I really wanted to speak up in that regard. The time and gil sink of a mythic is crazy, it should be the ultimate staff for all situations if not most but with magic burst strategies common, and flaming crush so hard to have an entire party setup for on high level content that it can be not even doable, equipping nirvana seems a solo low level thing mostly and the end game balance of SMN and where it sits could well be determined by what stats the devs put on it, so lets hope ALL jobs get a good update and are relevant with their weapons.

I think you misunderstand, what I mean is that they can hardly screw Nirvana up.
By itself the weapon already is insane, any improvement only makes it more badass. Sure, there are weapons that are able to "touch" the level of Nirvana but there are none that beat it and to make such a weapon needs incredible luck or a dedicated investment you'd also put into a relic.

Spharai, like other weapons, on the other hand have been stomped and spat on and thrown aside by mere BCNM drops.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Fear not, the upgrades to Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons are still coming! The development team is not only adding stat upgrades, but also making event-related adjustments (not quests, but text-related to upgrading), and adjustments to certain Aftermaths.

This work will take a bit more time, but it is underway!

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If i'm overstepping or over speaking by this has been already implemented and mentioned with a solid reply with it, please let me know after this point thanks!!:eek:

?-So Grekumah would this ever include all of those job artifact weapons becoming 99 first, plus adding a I-level weapon's symbol with better stats past anything original on them to make it a far better usable weapon again which as far as to my knowledge never been touched after their obtainations from AF 1 start's into being put into moogle slips of an artifact storage or by some players simply dropped but easily be Obtainable again if this comes about into becoming a reality? I suppose they could be made to become an I-Level weapon without bringing it first to a lv.99 version becoming an I-Level Lv.99 Weapon, correct?

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Originally Posted by Tile

how about adjusting a few one the WSs too, like how Atonement is still super weak, and you can't say its a reliable source of damage because since it was added there are many mobs that will erase hate and make the WS do very little dmg or nothing at all.

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Even with capped enmity it doesn't do that much. On top of that they also added a bunch of mobs with bdt to lower it's dmg and when they greatly increased the enmity it basically made us have to get twice the enmity for the same amount of as before dmg instead of letting us do even more with more enmity

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Originally Posted by Shirai

I think you misunderstand, what I mean is that they can hardly screw Nirvana up.
By itself the weapon already is insane, any improvement only makes it more badass. Sure, there are weapons that are able to "touch" the level of Nirvana but there are none that beat it and to make such a weapon needs incredible luck or a dedicated investment you'd also put into a relic.

Spharai, like other weapons, on the other hand have been stomped and spat on and thrown aside by mere BCNM drops.

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I agree Spharai has had it far worse. I disagree with your statements on the power level and balance of Nirvana however, and did not misunderstand.

I feel it is lackluster, for all but physical pacts. Flaming Crush damage can be close with Espiritus, Keraunos or Grioavolr and for magical pacts Griovoalr > Espiritus > Keraunos > Nirvana. Now, on CLVL 125 creatures physical pacts are fine. Once you start getting higher though, not only do DD stop being used much, but mana burn parties are the norm and I hope this update can help fix that. Without a full support team for your SMN with nirvana or boosting +100 to all stats with 1 hour, you will not be doing physical pacts or utilizing your nirvana. In Escha zones you can raise that a bit higher due to vorseals but you aren't going to be doing t2 and possibly some t1 with nirvana physical pacts without good support and/or using 1 hour for +100 to all stats. You are going to be magic bursting, unless you use that bug which doesn't work for everyone so I'm not going to include it (and imo balance should never depend on some found bug and the boost you can obtain is very tiny).

Now if you disagree that's fine, but I'm going to quote a hard statement of fact here quoting a post you yourself made on another site regarding heavenly strike:

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Setup 1:
BP Delay set with Nirvana, BP set with Nirvana.
1. 8058
2. 8058
3. 8058

Setup 3:
BP Delay set with Keraunos, BP set with Keraunos.
1. 8686 (Well I'll be! Let's do that again!)
2. 8686
3. 8686

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It doesn't seem to me that Nirvana is merely "touched" it is surpassed. This is old info, since then SMN has had two staves come out that beat Keraunos, which in another post you claim to use on flaming crush instead of nirvana. It doesn't take nearly what it takes to make a relic to augment Keraunos, but why would you wish to? Espiritus drops a lot, and is not overly hard to obtain at all and is random augment free and the cost of getting on is very small, even free if you farm the UNM too. Griovalr while a bit tougher to get, and deals with random augs, won't break the bank like Keraunos does. So it seems to me Nirvana could easily be "screwed up" (thought I prefer to say left behind because that's what it'd do), if they don't boost the only real good physical bp staff we have when they boost the DD REM skill levels and other parts. Nirvana is already very situationally useful, it's a great use, but it isn't what I feel a mythic should be for the time sunk into it, it should be the ultimate staff, not something you put away when Teles, Kirin v2, and the Warder of Courage (Ultimate Virtue v2) and other big bads rear their ugly heads. That damage difference on magic bursts will be 3x as large, on top of that level correction has no part in magic damage, and with food and geo debuffs, any magic accuracy boon you might gain (and it is a big might as you can get a lot of magic acc on some of these pet mab staves) from nirvana is all but moot. This comparison is also using the oldest and worst case Keraunos, for Espiritus and Griovalr it is simply an even bigger issue.

I just think this case needs made, there's not a ton of SMN out there and it's faced a lot of discrimination ever since the nerf on Perfect Defense. It's finally starting to get in a good place again, if all the other REM are boosted and Nirvana is left in its very much less than satisfactory state I fear that discrimination SMN players fought so hard against will once again be the norm. So please don't say nirvana can't be left behind or doesn't need help at all, as I said you have to put it away for hard mobs. That doesn't feel like the time and effort spent making one is justified at all and unless physical damage strats become prevalent on hard content AND nirvana physical pacts can compete with magic burst damage on that same hard content then Nirvana remains a low level fun toy, not useful beyond t1 Reisenjima and that should not be the case. Of course if all that fails, SMN could fall back on their support capabilities. But oh wait, Nirvana doesn't help that either... Espiritus does with Summoning skill augment, or the new staff you can get from killing the NM you can fish up in Reisenjima.

I like mythics, I just feel they should live up to their promise as well, the ultimate weapon for the job you get them on because unlike relics, aeonics, and empyrean they only can be equipped by one job and if you're rich it's not something you can just buy into either there is a lot of questing involved. All that is as it should be, but Nirvana isn't it should be relevant for end game content one way or another. While I appreciate your input, I know you quit a while, so please don't say Nirvana's update needs no attention and is very hard to get wrong. All jobs update should get equal attention and balance the jobs they were made for and again I hope they are all good updates in that sense. I felt that case had to be made, because that update will effect not just you, but everyone who plays SMN in one way or another and there's not any bandwagoners only people passionate about the job. The bandwagon is most nuking jobs at the moment. It seems every other person in our LS is getting job points on and gearing either BLM or SCH sometimes both, and many of them have DD jobs they are passionate about but hardly get to play, and many have a back pocket GEO or WHM or both because that's what it takes to function in todays ffxi world. SMN is recognized for its 1 hour potential but nothing more. BLM and SCH will beat your burst damage because they can do it more often, and BST zerg is still superior to SMN in maybe all but a few niche situations. There's people for every job passionate about it and pushing its limits, sadly you see them using espiritus and I'm sure soon Griovoalr on the hard fight videos and clears. It's cool to see a SMN 1 hour a t1, using nirvana. Sure. You can't do that on t2 Reisenjima and not on t3 in other zones and not on anything 130 or above outside escha and magic burst strategies will never use nirvana unless it get a lot more bp dmg or it gets pet mab added to it, or both.

I think that all jobs updates should consider balance of the jobs in question, and making sure that it is really the ultimate weapon for a job (i.e. usable even in the most end game content and puts the job on an entirely other level than a player without one). Nirvana definitely hasn't fit that bill for a long time now and as you said other jobs had it worse, (though most DD with am3 up still did better than any other weapon option). I hope SE's balance and update professionals will take each REM update into consideration carefully and consider the meta game and balance of each job, as well as make these ultimate weapons actually that. All that said, I'd be somewhat a hypocrite to spotlight SMN more in this thread but it's a case I strongly feel needed to be brought to attention.

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Originally Posted by Fae

Without a full support team for your SMN with nirvana or boosting +100 to all stats with 1 hour, you will not be doing physical pacts or utilizing your nirvana. In Escha zones you can raise that a bit higher due to vorseals but you aren't going to be doing t2 and possibly some t1 with nirvana physical pacts without good support and/or using 1 hour for +100 to all stats. .

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Uhh... I use Physical pacts even on T3s. T1s and T2s I've duoed/Trioed many times w/o ever touching Astral Flow. There is only T1/2 NMs in any of the Escha zones that I refrain from using physical on and that is more of a support and that is the tonberry which I hold out for Thunderspark to wipe his clones. No one hour needed for any of them. The mimic sucks, but still use Volt Strike for stuns and Shock Squall if he is doing Death Trap. On ffxiah I posted a picture of Flaming Crush doing capped damage into a capped damage fragmentation. The only buff going at the time was a beast roll. yes, its only a 119 in Zi'tah, but I've done capped light many times w/ 70-80k FCs in sky on T1s w/ just a SCH with me. No buffs. Astral Flow is not needed.

Anything 132 and below I can use physical pacts w/o support and have capped acc. Once 135 starts I like to have support, it just sucks trying to do it w/o, but it is doable. Again w/o AF. Honestly I can say the only time I ever seem to AF is if I use AC right after or for the random PD/altana's favor.

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We are currently busy preparing for monthly updates in the run-up to April, including a version update slated for February, which will introduce new augments for Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Ergon weapons.

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Source: http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...20/detail.html

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Fear not, the upgrades to Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons are still coming! The development team is not only adding stat upgrades, but also making event-related adjustments (not quests, but text-related to upgrading), and adjustments to certain Aftermaths.

This work will take a bit more time, but it is underway!

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From today's post: http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...20/detail.html

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We are currently busy preparing for monthly updates in the run-up to April, including a version update slated for February, which will introduce new augments for Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Ergon weapons.

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We do not want random augments, we want the straight up damage adjustments as revealed here

Greetings,

I have a bit more to add about the upcoming enhancements.

After enhancing Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons via the new upgrade path, an afterglow effect will be applied to each one.

The first reason for this is to enable future expansion of this content. The afterglow effect on weapons is tied to the completion of Trials of the Magians, and the data for these quests are stored directly on the weapon itself. This data record occupies the same space as that of the weapons’ stat expansion, and in the event you haven’t completed Trials of the Magians (i.e. have not obtained an afterglow), it would not be possible to increase the weapon stats or expand on the special properties.

The second reason is to reduce the time and resources for enhancements. When looking into enhancements for these weapons, we found that if we were to split them into two groups (those with afterglow and those without), it would require a higher amount of resources, which would cause the development time to increase. In order to avoid this from happening, we decided to adopt the current plan that we are moving forward with.

If you already have a weapon with an afterglow effect, you will have an advantage as the next phase for enhancement will be easier to accomplish. On the other hand, those that do not have an afterglow will have quite a challenge ahead of them.

The development team is working hard on adjustments so that they can implement this content, so please stay tuned for more details!