Classic server, what's the argument against it now?

https://4gameforum.com/threads/linea...is-next.26645/

Dear friends!

We all made quite some work. After this month we have 16555 votes, and it is a little bit more than our initial goal. That is great!
I bet you all want to know what happens next, and here it is: we've started working towards opening the server. As you can imagine, it involves a lot of preparation, discussion, testing and other complicated stuff which we cannot talk about in details. There is still a risk that the project won't be launched if the circumstances are not in our favour.
We appreciate your efforts and your involvement in this project. You've shown your desire to see Lineage 2 Classic in Europe, and it means a lot for us.
Stay tuned, updates on the project will be posted on the forum as soon as we have them.

Well, would you look at that. Another success story. They surpassed their goal, even more players than they initially hoped for voted for a classic server.

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Originally Posted by Ethereal

Driving around in 1987 with a 1987 Iroc Z was cool and fun. Driving around in 2015 with a 1987 Iroc Z kind of loses it's coolness and satisfaction when there's much newer and nicer options available. If there's no other options available then some of the cool factor remains. But this is an MMO, we're not just playing in our own little world. People do like to run around showing off their items or achievements they worked for when you play the game with other people that have their own opinions. Dinging 75 held some amount of appeal, dinging 99 - well who cares. If it was a 1 player game then yes, who cares.

Technically it's an opinion, but I'd have to think that most people would agree that purposely downgrading is not as fun or satisfying as playing with the best stuff at the time.

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This is a case where, while I don't entirely agree, i see your point. However, this isn't about showing off gear or achievements, this is more about the gameplay and killing things. Also, I would argue that just because you're playing in an alternate server where that's the limit, doesnt' mean you aren't aware of the other servers where it isn't the limit. Since we already know about level 99 and what it offers, playing on a classic server is still technically artificially limiting yourself and to me, the result would be the same.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This is a case where, while I don't entirely agree, i see your point. However, this isn't about showing off gear or achievements, this is more about the gameplay and killing things. Also, I would argue that just because you're playing in an alternate server where that's the limit, doesnt' mean you aren't aware of the other servers where it isn't the limit. Since we already know about level 99 and what it offers, playing on a classic server is still technically artificially limiting yourself and to me, the result would be the same.

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Also true...

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Originally Posted by Bluestar2kx

i just don't see a classic server working.
Maybe it works fine for those private groups, who can be more particular about who's in the game then SE can, but the odds of it working large scale on public servers, are very small, as is the long term interest group. I would give it, at most, 3 months before the classic server started to fail on itself, and that's not really enough to warrant the expense. This thread is up to 17 pages, and I'd bet most of it is the same small group of people arguing, which lends credit to this not being a good idea.

The only way to truly determine interest is a poll SE sends through our account emails for all FFXI account holders, and see what happens.
But I can't foresee that giving results interested groups here are seeking, and certainly not enough to give SE pause.

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Well, it seemed to work out really well for Lineage 2. They required a goal of 15k signatures supporting a classic server, and ended up getting 16k. That was in a single month's time, too.

With all of these success stories, I have no reason to believe a classic server wouldn't be a hit. Naysayers are just that, and they've provided no source to back any of their claims. Just their own personal beliefs, which have become increasingly hostile since this thread has began.

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Originally Posted by nekroturkey

https://4gameforum.com/threads/linea...is-next.26645/

Dear friends!

We all made quite some work. After this month we have 16555 votes, and it is a little bit more than our initial goal. That is great!
I bet you all want to know what happens next, and here it is: we've started working towards opening the server. As you can imagine, it involves a lot of preparation, discussion, testing and other complicated stuff which we cannot talk about in details. There is still a risk that the project won't be launched if the circumstances are not in our favour.
We appreciate your efforts and your involvement in this project. You've shown your desire to see Lineage 2 Classic in Europe, and it means a lot for us.
Stay tuned, updates on the project will be posted on the forum as soon as we have them.

Well, would you look at that. Another success story. They surpassed their goal, even more players than they initially hoped for voted for a classic server.

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I surpassed my goal of 5 posts in this thread. Well, not really, but surpassing a goal means nothing. You can set a goal too high and not surpass it, or you can set a goal low and blow it out of the water. Also, voting for it doesn't guarantee they'll play on it, or for how long, because if it isn't updated, it's fate will be the same as FFXI when it doesn't get updated.

Time warping is great and all, but you still have to offer new content to keep player's interest. Which is why "progression" is better than "classic," as it gives the chance to reminisce of the good ol days while still gradually unlocking new content.

More games doing this is actually a concern to me, because it suggests to me that the developers are failing at creating captivating content for their players if people want to go back to the old version.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Also, voting for it doesn't guarantee they'll play on it, or for how long

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

So I ask a question: Are you demanding that I prove that people leave the game for other reasons than "the game used to be more fun?" I'd be happy to conduct a survey if you'd like

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So, you feel voting is useless when it's used to show how many people are interested in a classic server, yet you feel you can prove your point by polling people on why they left the game?

I hope you see the double standard in that kind of logic.

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Originally Posted by nekroturkey

Well, it seemed to work out really well for Lineage 2. They required a goal of 15k signatures supporting a classic server, and ended up getting 16k. That was in a single month's time, too.

With all of these success stories, I have no reason to believe a classic server wouldn't be a hit. Naysayers are just that, and they've provided no source to back any of their claims. Just their own personal beliefs, which have become increasingly hostile since this thread has began.

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Not that I'm arguing a classic server for FFXI couldn't be successful, I'm just not so sure that it's entirely fair to compare it to a classic server for the other games mentioned in this thread so far. I've played during the classic era on all three games (Everquest, L2, and FFXI) and I can say without a doubt that FFXI was the most unforgiving when it came to doing anything by yourself after the initial levels. From my observations through playing various private servers and the like, it seems that even mmo "vets" and classic proponents alike have a hard time swallowing a strictly group centric experience in this modern gaming age. On P99, it's common to see people asking on the forums about which classes work well solo, so that they have a choice when groups aren't available. That kind of freedom is something that many of us have come to really appreciate over the years, especially with most of us having jobs now, among other responsibilities.

As harsh as classic EQ could be, I recall most classes having a least one strategy that allowed them to solo -- albeit, some more slowly than others. In Lineage 2, I don't remember ever having a hard time leveling solo -- well, aside from it taking an eternity and being repetitive/boring as all hell (imo.) Classic FFXI, on the other hand, was bar none the most difficult mmorpg I've ever played in a solo sense (and maybe even in general.) For most classes, it seemed virtually impossible to reasonably solo anything that gave experience after a certain point, unless you were a BST. Granted I only got to around 40 on my DRK before I finally ended up quitting for that very reason, so if there were viable ways to solo with other jobs, please excuse my ignorance.

Of course, as there are classic-era private servers, there are obviously people out there that are fine doing it the old fashioned way, despite how grueling it could be when you couldn't find a group. My only question is, would there be enough to facilitate an entire official server and if so, would most of them stick around after remembering how harsh a mistress FFXI was in its heyday? Hard to say one way or the other.

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Originally Posted by Seillan

Not that I'm arguing a classic server for FFXI couldn't be successful, I'm just not so sure that it's entirely fair to compare it to a classic server for the other games mentioned in this thread so far.

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I can see where you're coming from, and I understand when other people say that just because other classic servers are successful, doesn't mean a classic FFXI server would be successful.

But for a moment, let's talk about the mobile native app that's set to be released sometime next year. None of us could've guessed that Square would be releasing a mobile version of FFXI. If anyone had requested this on the forums, it would've been met with even more criticism than asking for a classic server. However, despite the lack of perceived interest, they're still releasing it. Why? Because Square can see the success of mobile MMOs currently out on the market.

It's up to the people who want a classic server, to prove to Square that there is enough interest to support one. That classic servers for other games have been, and continue to be successful. If there's anything this mobile native app has shown me, it's that Square is willing to do things if they can see the potential success for it. That's why I showcased the success of other classic servers in my OP, because that seems like the best way to reach Square's ear based on past experience.

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Originally Posted by nekroturkey

I can see where you're coming from, and I understand when other people say that just because other classic servers are successful, doesn't mean a classic FFXI server would be successful.

But for a moment, let's talk about the mobile native app that's set to be released sometime next year. None of us could've guessed that Square would be releasing a mobile version of FFXI. If anyone had requested this on the forums, it would've been met with even more criticism than asking for a classic server. However, despite the lack of perceived interest, they're still releasing it. Why? Because Square can see the success of mobile MMOs currently out on the market.

It's up to the people who want a classic server, to prove to Square that there is enough interest to support one. That classic servers for other games have been, and continue to be successful. If there's anything this mobile native app has shown me, it's that Square is willing to do things if they can see the potential success for it. That's why I showcased the success of other classic servers in my OP, because that seems like the best way to reach Square's ear based on past experience.

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Can't argue with that. The only way to know if something would be truly successful would be to try it out firsthand, I suppose. Prediction only goes so far, but as you said, they do have other examples to go by as well.

Even though I likely wouldn't play it myself, I have no issue with people that want a classic experience to have it. Variety is the spice of life, and all that.

edit: Clarification

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Originally Posted by nekroturkey

So, you feel voting is useless when it's used to show how many people are interested in a classic server, yet you feel you can prove your point by polling people on why they left the game?

I hope you see the double standard in that kind of logic.

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There's no double standard. However, you were demanding data, so I offered a way of getting data. I didn't say that I actually thought that data was useful (and I made it pretty clear in my response that it isn't useful).

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If anyone had requested this on the forums, it would've been met with even more criticism than asking for a classic server. However, despite the lack of perceived interest, they're still releasing it. Why? Because Square can see the success of mobile MMOs currently out on the market.

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What makes you so sure the idea would have been criticized more? Prior to learning that it was a seperate game and not a client for the first game, I was actually a little interested in it. Finding out that it was its own thing was what killed it for me.