More nerfs for War & Ukkos.

That wasn't a contradiction. Gear is only a factor because in this case, it has a broken WS attached to it...

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Originally Posted by Originalkord

I'm aware. And now that you've solidified the answer, how can you be in support of a single job nerf when its going to force players out of content? That's the crime here according to you isnt it? Other jobs are not able to participate in content because WARs are just the detriment to the entire system.

I just don't see how you can expect a nerf to one job to be a good thing when it still doesn't solve your perceived problem. Its two opposing ideas.

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One step at a time lol.

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Originally Posted by Tagrineth

One step at a time lol.

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Thanks for proving my point, again.

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Originally Posted by Scribble

warriors with little to no skill and lackluster gear should not be able to keep up with or surpass other DD with top notch skills and gear.

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The problem here is that even with an ukon, before this nerf takes place, bad players with bad gear cannot beat competent players with decent gear. Unless they're playing melee RDM or something dumb.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

The problem here is that even with an ukon, before this nerf takes place, bad players with bad gear cannot beat competent players with decent gear. Unless they're playing melee RDM or something dumb.

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I've seen it happen on several occasions outside of abyssea. Some warrior with sub par skill is keeping up or exceeding the output of other skilled DD simply because they have Ukon. Not to bash warriors or anything, but seeing that makes other people think that there really isn't much skill required to play the class. Those who are skilled will still be able to push out great numbers post-nerf anyway so I'm not sure what the issue is.

Regardless, Ukko's was broken to start with. Any warrior being honest with themselves would agree. 80% crit rate at 300 TP, considering how much easier it is to get to with songs, rolls, DA rate ect., all rolled up with a healthy STR mod and great base damage... it's just way over where it needed to be. Suggesting that other jobs get similar buffs isn't realistic, it doesn't solve the problem and you'd still see just as much QQ here about how other jobs are OP and WAR deserves the top spot.

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Originally Posted by Scribble

I've seen it happen on several occasions outside of abyssea. Some warrior with sub par skill is keeping up or exceeding the output of other skilled DD simply because they have Ukon. Not to bash warriors or anything, but seeing that makes other people think that there really isn't much skill required to play the class. Those who are skilled will still be able to push out great numbers post-nerf anyway so I'm not sure what the issue is.

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All this talk of having skill on Warrior and DD jobs. If I may ask--how exactly does one display "skill" as WAR? They use Berserk? And what job was WAR being compared to in your example?

Your performance on WAR is largely due in part to having good gear sets that you have the ability to swap. Enmity management no longer applies. When skillchains were necessary you did need to have slightly less than half a brain to not be able to execute those, but that's no longer relevant. When you think of good WARs nowadays, your mind is going straight to DPS and WS numbers. We're not talking about the same level of play required to play something like WHM, which has to keep up buffs and remove debuffs, all while making sure no one gets killed in between.

Outside of damage output, no one is walking around and being an innovator and coming up with new ways to press a button when a countdown timer says they're allowed to do so.

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Originally Posted by Scribble

I've seen it happen on several occasions outside of abyssea. Some warrior with sub par skill is keeping up or exceeding the output of other skilled DD simply because they have Ukon. Not to bash warriors or anything, but seeing that makes other people think that there really isn't much skill required to play the class. Those who are skilled will still be able to push out great numbers post-nerf anyway so I'm not sure what the issue is.

Regardless, Ukko's was broken to start with. Any warrior being honest with themselves would agree. 80% crit rate at 300 TP, considering how much easier it is to get to with songs, rolls, DA rate ect., all rolled up with a healthy STR mod and great base damage... it's just way over where it needed to be. Suggesting that other jobs get similar buffs isn't realistic, it doesn't solve the problem and you'd still see just as much QQ here about how other jobs are OP and WAR deserves the top spot.

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I've seen on several occasions subpar Ukon war being outdamaged by Blu, but that's because my server is full of idiots who ws in tp gear.

20/30/40 post crit rate ukko's would have been fine imo, on test server it's looking like 15/20-25/30ish.

If skill is being equated to knowledge of how to gear yourself then a properly geared anything will beat a WAR that doesn't know about haste or doesn't gear swap or what have you. Beyond that there's no more skill required to play most DD jobs than there is to get the right flavor drink out of a soda machine.

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Originally Posted by Originalkord

Thanks for proving my point, again.

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Then you aren't disagreeing with me at all!

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Originally Posted by Originalkord

If I may ask--how exactly does one display "skill" as WAR?

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Having appropriate gear swaps, using JAs when they're up -instead of using berserk once every 20 minutes, knowing how to reduce JA delay as much as possible, knowing what to merit, being quick to engage, knowing when to use temp items if you have them/using them correctly, being aware of when to use PDT/MDT sets to avoid dieing, knowing when to not ws things like glavoid so you dont heal it, knowing when to run away from stuff you're fighting, the ability to position yourself correctly so you auto target mob#2 after #1 dies, knowing how damage is calculated and making the most out of the gear you have access to, etc, etc, etc.........

I could go on, but I think you get the point.

Another mark of good warriors is that they have skilled up every weapon so they get all the procs they can get, which takes a lot of dedication and its very time consuming, even if using retaliation, mandies, and an alt WHM to heal yourself with. So I would say dedication and a willingness to do crappy busy work for weeks is important to being a good WAR also.