The importance of job points

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The reason people are bringing this up again is becuase they plan to offer new spells/abilities with gifts. I'm still not bothered though. It's a post lvl cap progression system, just like merit points were at 75, therefore it was almost a certainty they would do something like this.

I really dont see the reason for the fuss about speed though. You can get a job point today faster than you could get a merit point when they were brand new.

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You're going by the assumption that things were perfectly fine back then and that things haven't improved significantly in the meantime. I prefer content follow today's pace rather than the pace of yesteryear, so I'm going to push for that. I don't want the old FFXI back in any way shape or form.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

My play time is irrelevant to the entitlement players think they deserve. If you don't farm JPs, that isn't SE's fault. I farmed 20 JPs in 1 hour of a CP party the other day. That is apparently more CP than most the people complaining in this thread have. Yet they don't have the time? 1 hour is a lot of time? Choosing to dyna or some sort of content over farming JPs warrants handouts?

That being said, make sure my position is clear. I don't care if there is a change or not to the rate JPs are gained. IDC if they give players spells that require JPs or not. I do care that players are trying to validate their laziness to receive benefits.

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Actually I have 50 JPs on my DNC, 20+ on my WAR, and a smattering on other jobs. I can get them pretty fast even though I know I'm way behind some people. That's not really the point. SE lied to us. Not changed their minds. They lied. They should do something to make up for lying to their customers.

Also if JPs are the new primary form of progression then they need to flow at a rate that better represents the present day pace of the game, and not the pace of the game from 7 years ago. It's fine IMO to have some limitations on them such as where they can be obtained, but the rate before bonuses kick in is just too low for something that's only going to become more and more valuable as time goes on and something that scales the way they do.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

You're going by the assumption that things were perfectly fine back then and that things haven't improved significantly in the meantime. I prefer content follow today's pace rather than the pace of yesteryear, so I'm going to push for that. I don't want the old FFXI back in any way shape or form.

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Progression via the idea of lvls isn't ok? You prefer handouts? Because that is what you imply. You don't want to work for your JPs, so you think its unfair that you wouldn't have access to same things JPs provide to a player that has worked for JPs. It's obvious you don't want old FFXI back because you obviously want to sit in town all day and win the game. You farm JPs now faster than MOST partys if not ALL partys could get merits back in the days. For you to say otherwise would imply that you obviously know how to play with other people in an MMO (in your case actually some kind of solo game where you get everything doing nothing) and should have no issues farming JPs in the first place making your points irrelevant.

Giving the actual proof of the population vs the population now and days, it is actually warranted that things were better then than now. I don't know what kind of proof you could provide to say otherwise but till you do it's pretty obvious that more people enjoyed the previous years of FFXI than not, though it's not really relevant for this topic so really shouldn't be discussed.

Again, JPs are gained at a faster pace, just because you are apparently doing it wrong, doesn't mean they aren't.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

Actually I have 50 JPs on my DNC, 20+ on my WAR, and a smattering on other jobs. I can get them pretty fast even though I know I'm way behind some people. That's not really the point. SE lied to us. Not changed their minds. They lied. They should do something to make up for lying to their customers.

Also if JPs are the new primary form of progression then they need to flow at a rate that better represents the present day pace of the game, and not the pace of the game from 7 years ago. It's fine IMO to have some limitations on them such as where they can be obtained, but the rate before bonuses kick in is just too low for something that's only going to become more and more valuable as time goes on and something that scales the way they do.

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I'm sorry, but you are not new here. You are mad that they lied to you? Then why didn't you quit "7 years ago"? SE, just like every other MMO, reserves the right to change there mind about anything they want. Also, given the time frame that they mentioned this would happen, I'm sure there has been plenty of time to build up a plethora of CP. They didn't just yesterday say that JPs are going to be more important and all the sudden hit us with a patch tomorrow.

Let's say you are in a party that obtains 10CP an hour. That takes 11 hours to cap out 2 entire catagories, and give ALL the current gift rewards. 11 hours...... and it actually gives you 15 more JPs than needed. Again...... 11 hours...... IDK what world you live in, but that is significantly faster than the game "7 years ago". That is 3.3mil exp from CP........

The issue is assuming mp isnt Limiting, which is fine for single target bcnm/high level fights, but stuff like CP parties/delve its 100% not even close to possible.

A mage with 0 mp after 1 fight is doing 0 dps, so on anything where you have to keep your mp for more than 1 blown load, t4 is not practical, even if it is higher DD. In a 1 and done burn, sure, go for t4s, but if I invite a mage to a cp party and they do great DPS for 1 fight and sit out the next 10, theres no point in having them there.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

Giving the actual proof of the population vs the population now and days, it is actually warranted that things were better then than now. I don't know what kind of proof you could provide to say otherwise but till you do it's pretty obvious that more people enjoyed the previous years of FFXI than not, though it's not really relevant for this topic so really shouldn't be discussed.

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TLDR; there are thousands of reason why people quit and yours is probably pretty low on that list.

I used to play like 8+ hours a day back when the game came out (been playing since JP release). The game was tedious and annoying, but I really didn't have much else to do when I got off work at midnight and I lived at my moms house. Now I don't even get to play a lot of days. On the other hand, I used to live at my moms house, work late and get paid crap. Now I have a hot wife, a huge house (and a couple vacation homes) and an @ $500k income. I also have a crapload more games to play now. FFXI has gotten a lot better, or I would have cancelled it a long time ago. So, no. Saying that the game was better back then and that is why people quit is not warranted.

As I'm sure you already know, 99% of the stuff that was in the game back then is still in the game now. If you / they really liked the game the way it was, you'd still be playing it that way.

It's not black and white. Just because people don't like the way something has changed doesn't necessarily mean that they liked the way it was before either.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

Progression via the idea of lvls isn't ok? You prefer handouts?

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This seems to be the argument in every thread on this forum.

"Oh, you don't like the way XXXX works? You just want everything handed to you!"

I don't really see how you can say that something is super easy and shouldn't be changed without admitting that you yourself enjoy hand outs. If you honestly don't think that earning JPs is difficult, then why do you care what happens to them at all? Do you enjoy things that aren't challenging? Are handouts only okay when they work for you?

Did you ignore the part of the post where I calculated it would only take ~8 refresh to maintain tier 4 spam with your damage numbers?

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

My play time is irrelevant to the entitlement players think they deserve. If you don't farm JPs, that isn't SE's fault. I farmed 20 JPs in 1 hour of a CP party the other day. That is apparently more CP than most the people complaining in this thread have. Yet they don't have the time? 1 hour is a lot of time? Choosing to dyna or some sort of content over farming JPs warrants handouts?

That being said, make sure my position is clear. I don't care if there is a change or not to the rate JPs are gained. IDC if they give players spells that require JPs or not. I do care that players are trying to validate their laziness to receive benefits.

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That's a lot of writing just to avoid giving a direct answer.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Did you ignore the part of the post where I calculated it would only take ~8 refresh to maintain tier 4 spam with your damage numbers?

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I have 8mp idle refresh and cannot maintain t4 nukes, so your math is off. I guess if your a blm who doesnt swap weapons and can use a staff ws to refill mp, sure..... but as a geo who is constantly using indi/geo spells, if i do anything other than t1's i will be out of mp after 1 boss and might not be able to keep up indi/geo on the next boss.

Numbers are great on paper, but go out and try to prove it before you open your mouth.

I have capped job points on GEO and BLM. Use those equipment pieces I wrote about.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

This seems to be the argument in every thread on this forum.

"Oh, you don't like the way XXXX works? You just want everything handed to you!"

I don't really see how you can say that something is super easy and shouldn't be changed without admitting that you yourself enjoy hand outs. If you honestly don't think that earning JPs is difficult, then why do you care what happens to them at all? Do you enjoy things that aren't challenging? Are handouts only okay when they work for you?

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Are you even reading what people are saying in this thread? They literally are saying they think its unfair that they would have to farm JPs to advance their characters.

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Originally Posted by Raydeus

That's a lot of writing just to avoid giving a direct answer.

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Cool story. Stop trying to derail the topic.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

This seems to be the argument in every thread on this forum.

"Oh, you don't like the way XXXX works? You just want everything handed to you!"

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More like: Person A doesn't like the way XXXX works so Person A is going to complain to try and make it multiple times easier regardless of how that effects the worthiness of playing the game because Person A is an instant gratification person.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I don't really see how you can say that something is super easy and shouldn't be changed without admitting that you yourself enjoy hand outs. If you honestly don't think that earning JPs is difficult, then why do you care what happens to them at all? Do you enjoy things that aren't challenging? Are handouts only okay when they work for you?

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I'll make an educated guess as an answer for PlumbGame, but don't take my response as his words: he is not for changing something that is easy into even easier.

Personally, I want Job Points to be even more difficult to get. So yes I want change, make them even more of a grind. Why? Because we are of such a high level that it should require an enormous amount of effort just to go up even a small amount.