Realistic Job adjustments wants!

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I don't think i can even think of a proper comparison between NIN and Throwing being useless and another job/another ability.

I'm very open minded when it comes to adjustments, But i'm with Wish on this one, If you want adjustments to NIN, don't think about Shuriken... It works well for RNG cause thats rngs "Thing"

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This is unbelievable. I'm talking about Improving something that has gone bad. Never once did I say that Throwing at this very moment is any good. But it seems to be the trend to just toss out and do away with a key feature ability (NIN has had throwing since the conception of the Final Fantasy Series) of this particular job. Im knocking my head against the wall...

Ninja's Throw Things.

Improve Throwing itself, don't get rid of it.

Done.

I've already said throwing is situational in other threads, but that is ninja all together; situational. They have the ability to react to mobs in ways that other DD/tanks can't. Or at least that is how I've been playing it these past seven years.

I didn't literally mean making all ranged attacks from out AoE range. More or less staying on that threshold moving away to avoid moves and coming back to continue DMG/Debuff, keeping yourself on the hate list in case the other tank goes down.

But again I will say Throwing is situational. That being said I would like to see an update that would make it more than situational. Why? Maybe only because when I think of ninja's I think of Nunchaku and Shurikens. That's enough for me.

and speaking of Nunchaku....
new blunt weapon with NIN skill A- (cause thats just what we'd expect from SE) <.<
Dual weilding Nunchaku o.O!

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Originally Posted by Bulrogg

I've already said throwing is situational in other threads, but that is ninja all together; situational. They have the ability to react to mobs in ways that other DD/tanks can't. Or at least that is how I've been playing it these past seven years.

I didn't literally mean making all ranged attacks from out AoE range. More or less staying on that threshold moving away to avoid moves and coming back to continue DMG/Debuff, keeping yourself on the hate list in case the other tank goes down.

But again I will say Throwing is situational. That being said I would like to see an update that would make it more than situational. Why? Maybe only because when I think of ninja's I think of Nunchaku and Shurikens. That's enough for me.

and speaking of Nunchaku....
new blunt weapon with NIN skill A- (cause thats just what we'd expect from SE) <.<
Dual weilding Nunchaku o.O!

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Nunchaku love the idea :) and why not DW tonfa also :) and don't forget Shuriken please, even if I'm the only one who would use it ;p

Since you're trying to argue this in like 8 threads, I'm posting the same response in all of them so I know you see it.

I'm gonna spell this out for you, try not to get lost, read it til you get it.
Manji Shuriken have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay.
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.
Throwing comes no where near either of these 2 things, and never will, it's impossible unless they make haste affect ranged attacks.

Argue against me, go ahead.

Oh come out with you're silly math all you want, I just don't care about it. I like shuriken, I like FFXI, I like Ninja and i like you're art (seriously). But harder you try to convince me how shuriken re bad, and more I would like to use them. :)

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Originally Posted by Darwena

Oh come out with you're silly math all you want, I just don't care about it. I like shuriken, I like FFXI, I like Ninja and i like you're art (seriously). But harder you try to convince me how shuriken re bad, and more I would like to use them. :)

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Feel free to play this game however you want, You can enjoy it and find fun wherever you please. I respect this 100%. You are allowed to freely explore any aspect of the game you want! :)

But, Shuriken are less than desirable at the moment. They do offer a way to pull mobs however. They're fun toys too, and you have every right to use them.

But just because you hate math, does not mean you should insult those who do enjoy playing the job to its best potential!

Again, Enjoy the game however you want, But don't act like we're the bad guys here :)!


Also, For the sake of Argument, I already posted my Job Adjustment wants for NIN about some pages ago, You can go look at them. I liked them :|

Can a mod please clean up the off topic/ToS post so it is easier to navigate and find the actual "Realistic Job adjustments wants!" as that is the thread title. To much bickering going on over petty play styles.

Back on topic.

I did like that guys idea to add a Job Trait 'shuriken attack' to our melee attacks the same way a Monk has a Job Trait to 'kick attack'. That way it would not interrupt anyones melee but add to their DPS the same way proc'ing a kick attack does.

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Originally Posted by Bulrogg

Can a mod please clean up the off topic/ToS post so it is easier to navigate and find the actual "Realistic Job adjustments wants!" as that is the thread title. To much bickering going on over petty play styles.

Back on topic.

I did like that guys idea to add a Job Trait 'shuriken attack' to our melee attacks the same way a Monk has a Job Trait to 'kick attack'. That way it would not interrupt anyones melee but add to their DPS the same way proc'ing a kick attack does.

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You're just as guilty as the rest of us for continuing this. Also this thread is about realistic Job Adjustment Wants. its an open Discussion. Just because you don't like that their opinion is different from yours, you want them Silenced? How does that promote open discussion and exchange of Ideas. You may as well be saying "They Don't agree with me, Shut them up". thats unsporting any way you look at it.

Besides, I already Contributed Realistic Ideas and Wants :)! Its on page like 8.

Also, How would Shuriken Attack work? Would it be like Kick Attacks and just be an Animation of throwing, Or would you need to have consumable Ammo equipped?

Would it work with a Boomerang, or a Smart Grenade(something you dont want to throw?)

Curious, Because if its like Kick Attacks where its just an Animation of you throwing a Shuriken, It could only improve NIN's DPS and add the Element Of Shuriken (Even though Historically Ninjas never used Shuriken during Face-to-Face Combat). I think that would work.

However if it Consumed Ammo, It would prevent Ninjas from using some Useful ammo that's still tossable.

I think it fits the thread title fine. The discussion has mainly been about how realistic the job adjustment wants of some player were.

Auto-Throw seems interesting, but it would mean choosing between Shuriken and some of NIN's better ammo pieces (Qirmiz Tathlum is just awesome). At least I am fairly sure something along those lines should be doable, too. My only real issue with it is that you're likely going to end up with mediocre throwing damage at best since you'll be geared for Melee TP. Having to sacrifice TP gear for Ranged Attack/Acc gear from the get-go is already going to shove the JT into the gutter.

That said, I'm of the mind that NIN doesn't really need much of an adjustment right now. Ninja shines whenever it's fighting weak mobs. This is why they're finally relevant in Abyssea. Whether or not the move out of Abyssea and into 90+ Overworld content means a move back to hard mobs is yet to be seen. One of two things can happen:

1) NMs/Mobs remain relatively weak compared to the player, and NIN remains top tier. The only real buffs they could give it that would mean anything are Critical Hit Damage and Critical Hit Rate. Adding more tiers of Dual Wield is unnecessary (And actually very detrimental in group scenarios) when NIN can already cap Delay Reduction with outside buffs.

2) NMs/Mobs become relatively strong compared to the player again, and NIN is shunted back to bottom tier. If this happens, NIN will definitely need to see Attack, Acc, and Crit hit/Dmg boosts in order to attempt to claw their way up the ladder. Katanas are low weapon rank weapons as well, which means NIN is stuck with a low fSTR cap.

Throwing may be fun, but it would not help NIN at all if the latter choice is what the Devs opt for with new content. Innin was nice in theory, but the fact of the matter is (as Wish12oz has pointed out many times) any NIN who takes proper advantage of the damage increase is going to be holding hate anyways, which nullifies the stance. Removing the mob placement aspects of Yonin/Innin would certainly help some. An ability similar to Mnk's AF3+2 Body Enhanced Impetus would also definitely help.

Enhancing Yonin/Innin to work from anywhere would be a wonderful idea. It would definitely be a step in the right direction.