ATTN: Community Reps/Dev Team: PUPs of Vanadiel DEMAND a response on Automaton A.I.!

Wow... Camate... I suddenly want to finish leveling PUP.

As a side note: Activate/Deactivate is an accepted strategy? I never would have guessed the Devs were ok with this -- I thought it was just something they overlooked.

With regards to the Silence issue.

its not that they cast on monsters that resist it -- they will cast it on a monster that has no spells, but has MP; such as Crab.

No one has any complaints with abilities being resisted -- that happens, and while its unfortunate, its no worse than a missed weapon skill. The problem is when the automaton wastes its lengthy casting cycle on a spell that has no purpose or effect whether it hits or misses.

Separating out the magic types (Dark, Elemental, Enfeebling, Healing) and giving each its own timer will help this, but its still something that should be looked into.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Thats a lot of information. I'm sad that Maneuvers will continue to severely hinder the Damage of the Master, But if you can revamp attachments to make it worthwhile like you say, i don't see it being a problem!

Also, "Negative aspects of Tactical processor". Um, Camate, what does a Tactical Processor do D:? Can you please ask them that?

We'd all like to know :(. We know its negatives (Overload Rate) but not its positives.. :X

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The problem isn't maneuvers, the problem is that maneuvers are pet abilities. There shouldn't be an animation attached to the Puppetmaster. The Automaton, when activating a maneuver, should get that little steam animation from the PUP special emote (as a kind of "kicking into gear" indication) so that it doesn't distract from the PUP's attack cycles.

The Auto deals most of the damage, but the PUP's ability to maintain decent DPS is pretty important too. In situations where the automaton is just nuking, losing DPS because you have to freshen up your maneuvers hurts the PUP overall. Maneuvers don't need to be fixed, the annoying animation just needs to change.

I'm happy to hear these news but one thing bugs me

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We are looking into changing the automaton behavior. Since this is something that we have received a lot of feedback about we will be looking into it, but since the workings of the automaton logic are so complex it will take some time.

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Like 4 more years? Come on...

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Originally Posted by Neonii

Not to be off topic but does that mean smn concerns have been passed on? we would love even this much acknowledgement over on smn topics.

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.... Didn't the post you quoted pretty much explain that they are making their rounds and a lack of a response is pretty much them trying to find a solid answer for the questions presented...? Please don't be needy, they'll be coming to the SMN forums with info as soon as they have it to give.

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Originally Posted by Horadrim

.... Didn't the post you quoted pretty much explain that they are making their rounds and a lack of a response is pretty much them trying to find a solid answer for the questions presented...? Please don't be needy, they'll be coming to the SMN forums with info as soon as they have it to give.

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Thank you for clearing that up for me. Lets start the timer until info shows up on the smn topics ok?

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The problem isn't maneuvers, the problem is that maneuvers are pet abilities. There shouldn't be an animation attached to the Puppetmaster. The Automaton, when activating a maneuver, should get that little steam animation from the PUP special emote (as a kind of "kicking into gear" indication) so that it doesn't distract from the PUP's attack cycles.

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I agree its a Pet Ability, But so is Restoring Breath, Bloodpacts, Avatars Favor, Assault, Snarl, ready, etc. If they update pup this way they'd need to update all pet jobs this way, which would take some work and im sure its probably nigh impossible :|

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The Auto deals most of the damage, but the PUP's ability to maintain decent DPS is pretty important too. In situations where the automaton is just nuking, losing DPS because you have to freshen up your maneuvers hurts the PUP overall. Maneuvers don't need to be fixed, the annoying animation just needs to change.

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I don't think my automaton has ever once Outdamaged me in combat on normal enemies or NMs :X

Unless we're talking about Ranged fights where I only use BLM automaton. ( i can think of Voidwatch as a possible example, bad AoEs, etc), then yah its possible.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I agree its a Pet Ability, But so is Restoring Breath, Bloodpacts, Avatars Favor, Assault, Snarl, ready, etc. If they update pup this way they'd need to update all pet jobs this way, which would take some work and im sure its probably nigh impossible :|

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The problem lay in maneuvers being needed to be used often.

Unlike SMN, PUP is meant to be a team which means auto + master damage. The rub is that the more you use maneuvers, the more JA delay you have building up which leads to damage loss.

Yes, other DD have the same issues with their JAs but unlike those DD PUPs lose alot by not putting up those maneuvers.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I agree its a Pet Ability, But so is Restoring Breath, Bloodpacts, Avatars Favor, Assault, Snarl, ready, etc. If they update pup this way they'd need to update all pet jobs this way, which would take some work and im sure its probably nigh impossible :|

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Dragoon's Wyvern is barely a pet -- it just responds to what the Dragoon does with special abilities and attacks on its own. You can't issue any commands to it at all. The DRG does all of the work and the Wyvern is literally just an additional effect that can die.

Summoner is a different story because Summoner typically isn't going to be meleeing enemies.

Beastmaster's stand alone damage isn't as bad as Puppetmasters is (excluding situations where you have top of the line gear), and Beastmaster's entire relationship with its pets is to the effect of throwing them at things and not caring what really happens (within range of how convenient or inconvenient it would be for the BST himself.) -- Aside from that, BST's JA's are direct commands to preform actions and/or receive perpetual bonus effects. PUP's JAs are status effects that have to be refreshed constantly and in a much more complex fashion to maintain the automaton's maximum efficiency.

The way I see pet jobs in FFXI are a ratio of damage. DRG and BST are on the "player deals more" side of the damage spectrum, while PUP and SMN are on the Pet deals more side of things.

PUP suffers a lot from not using its abilities and it suffers for using them in lacking player DPS.

Erm maneuvers arent a pet ability.

Think of it like this:
Court Jester makes the triangle face (activates Fire Maneuver)
Court Jester does a jig (activates wind maneuver)

Etc, basically we are doing a dance maneuver and its telling our pet how it should be acting.

You guys seem to be getting the impression I don't want Maneuvers updated/adjusted. When actually i have a thread in the PUP job forums dedicated to just that.

At this point? PUP is more like DRG than BST is.

The master properly buffed will destroy the automaton in damage, like DRG would.

BST is in limbo. The pet is hardier than PUP, DRG or SMN and can be healed every minute but in party play both the pet and master come up short, especially against strong foes.