What he means is, you said. Also, anyone with already a job at 90 that hasn't finished the quest will need to do it somtime in the future to prevent any deleveling".
Which is confusing, since you have to break the LIMIT in order to get above it in the first place. o.O
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03-22-2011, 08:25 PMKomori
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03-22-2011, 08:40 PMrogDoes it really matter if a person learns how to play a job at level 20, or level 90? Exp could be removed entirely, and everyone could start at the max level, and that still wouldn't do any harm to the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odorf
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03-22-2011, 09:21 PMNephilipitou
Level 30 is fine. 50 would be the highest maximum I'd say they should implement. However that is still rather arbitrary in and of itself. Besides being a key person is a useful job in and of itself, they are still being useful and contributing, and they're being WAY more useful than someone who is basically missing and hitting for 0 for hours at lvl 75-90 range. However if people want to take lvl 30 jobs in and spend 12 hours in Abyssea getting it to 90 that's their issue.
Heck mage jobs don't even need skill ups.
"But they'll be gimp if they're not doing an extra 40-60 HP with their heals because their healing magic isn't up to snuff and that HP can make the difference between wiping or getting through with an NM fight!"
"They won't be able to land any enfeebles"
"Their Nukes won't do any damage and will be resisted!"
There's a simple answer to all of those concerns. /Sch
If you main or sub scholar they can basically get their stats up to snuff just by using Light Arts or Dark Arts, they'll gain skill ups as they perform actions that way, etcetera.
WHM/SCH means Accession Cure VI with Rapture turning Cure VI into an AoE and doing like 20-30 percent more than normal as well as getting that extra 40-80 HP for the cure due to light arts providing a roughly lvl 90 equivalent skill. As a Red Mage they can not only accession Phalanx and other spells but have their enhancing magic as if it were almost at cap.
Under Dark Arts Enfeebles will stick and nukes will be powered up enough to do damage while they skill up, as well as a boost to Dark Magic. Plus you can use Manifestation to have a Sleepga II instead of just Sleep II and Sleepga. Manifestation turns enfeebles and the like into AoE. Of course a BLM can heal pretty quickly with Manifestation Drain combo when there are multiple enemies in the camp as long as it doesn't get hate from all of them, or if it can switch to a Sleepga or a Manifestation Sleep II or even throw up mana wall in case of emergency.
So for the mages they're fine no matter what they do as long as they grab some appropriate tier spells, maybe get some gear, and sub scholar. They can still be perfectly usable in Abyssea and can get skill ups just fine using that method. Then when they get the skills they need they can sub something else.
I think saying that the minimum level to go into Abyssea near the 70s is kinda just wrong. Imagine if there was a level restriction to the Shadowreign era. I'd Probably be a DRK running around in Abyssea rather than a Scholar, cause if I had to get a character to level 30 just to go to the Eldeime Necropolis to do the quest for unlocking Scholar, I don't know if I would have done it by now. The only mage job I have above 30 even now, is Redmage and that was because it's got the spells I wanted to sub for my Scholar.
I dont' think a minimum level in Abyssea of like 30-40 or maybe even 50 would be an issue, but people shouldn't have to be forced to level from 50-75 where you have to gain 10-30k exp per level. Especially once they hit the level 60 range and people in Qufim/Dunes parties hit like 6 levels before you gain 1 level or everyone is gaining levels at 2x the rate you are. Right now if you're around level 50 the exp is capped in Abyssea at around 300-400 exp roughly and that's after you get all of your lights. Considering you can get that much easily without exp boosts outside of Abyssea, there's less reason to feel like Abyssea is the only way to get things done in a respectable time frame. If you don't have 4-8 hours of time to burn, then leveling outside of Abyssea will take you up faster possibly except in the case of Fell Cleave parties and amazing Dominion Ops parties depending on how fast the golden light builds up for you and how often you get exp chests.
Another point i want to make is at level 50 someone's sub job is done being leveled, so there's really no reason for them to level it up more than that unless they actually want to use it. However I know that if I was leveling nin as a sub job I wouldn't want to take it any higher than level 30 before I leech, cause I don't like Nin personally.
Raising the level cap to 70 is just going to decrease the amount of people available to you for seal farming, the amount of jobs they have available for proccing lights, etcetera. I don't think it really solves any problems. People can still Dunes and Qufim up to the cap and really there's very little if any benefits to instituting a cap, except for being some elitist. So I expect to see you doing shouts on your respective server in Jueno for good old fashioned exp parties.
I solo'd my puppetmaster from 1-20, duo'd till 23 or so, partied on and off between solos till about 45 range, and then I finally broke down and leeched to 74. Why? Because parties were getting a bit harder to find, people were complaining too dang much about the leechers, to the point to where it was getting annoying to party with people because they just keep ranting about how we should all be forced to level to level X, and most importantly, I wanted to get my BLM head and be able to get some more of my AF gear so I could get my overload gloves.
Since I had solo'd and partied so much my stats were capped, because 5 levels worth of level sync leveling was like 1/4 a level of soloing before I hit my caps again. So soloing wasn't beneficial, and partying was somewhat of a hassle at times, and elitists that are still leveling in the mid level range, are just annoying to party with cause all they rant about is that the game is too easy and I get tired of hearing that every other Kazham or higher party.
My skills are almost capped. I just merit as I gain Skillups in Abyssea and easily gain 40-50 skill ups for multiple skills in a single day soloing in Abyssea. I'm about 40-50 skill ups away from cap on a lot of those skills as well and have been able to work on getting my AF gear as I skill up. I'm about level 80 in skill, soon I'll have Tornado Kick.
Those are many of the reason why I think the position that the level cap needs to be raised higher than Genkai ranges, is just petty elitism and really doesn't do much but just prevent people from getting their job to cap, so that they can worry about the 100 other things that are important.
Ranks
CoP
ToAU missions
Salvage
Nyzul
Dynamis
AF1-3 +1/2
Magian Trials
Etcetera.
Do you really want to limit the amount of people who will level jobs that drop seals off of an NM that you don't need, so that you can lot for the ones you do need? The most you can hope for is to have more people with less jobs for proccing and to come with you on seal hunts as it becomes harder to level jobs.
I don't really see how any of the arguments FOR raising the level cap outweigh the things that I have mentioned thusly. -
03-22-2011, 10:04 PMMaquisI think leeching is fine for subjobs. Just when you want to use it as a main job, prove that you know how the job works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephilipitou
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03-22-2011, 10:09 PMrogDo you want us to prove we can use it in the dunes, with a pl, or in abyssea, in an NM party?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maquis
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03-22-2011, 10:46 PMMaquisJust beating Maat would be enough for me, what would be good for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by rog
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03-22-2011, 10:48 PMrogSo, if a whm can cast repose a few times, that proves they can heal an alliance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maquis
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03-22-2011, 11:02 PMMaquisYou think WHMs need to prove their skill beyond getting Divine Magic skill high enough to pull that off?Quote:
Originally Posted by rog
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03-22-2011, 11:03 PMRie/SCH. You lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maquis
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03-22-2011, 11:05 PMrogIgnoring /sch for a second, what does skilling up divine magic have to do with healing? Being able to do x does not prove they can do Y.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maquis