Ok...let me level with you here SE...

Back in my day, it took 4 years of camping to get Defending Ring to drop.

Got outlotted by three points.

Life's a bitch sometimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

Back in my day, it took 4 years of camping to get Defending Ring to drop.

Got outlotted by three points.

Life's a bitch sometimes.

---

The solution is clearly to go back to such frustrations!

I'm done with this. I'm gonna take my marrows and lego-builder in my mog house.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geabrielle

I'm done with this. I'm gonna take my marrows and lego-builder in my mog house.

---

Better yet shout a PUG for ADL right now and shut everyone up by posting pics of that groups success since its so easy.

I await the wipe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geabrielle

WoW is popular because you can set a bot to do endgame and walk away from your computer. It's like that annoying Gambit system in FF12 where it was pretty much to auto-play, which amounts to the same thing.

---

Um... no... I'm calling BS on this.

Quote:

---

The Dev is listening and they are making adjustments that will maintain the integrity and challenge of an FF game and to assure this they gave us the Test Servers. Games like this are constantly evolving and changes have to be carefully implemented, true some of them I don't particularly like but I deal with because change will come but it will take time.

---

Integrity and challenge of an FF game? The way it plays, FFXI barely even qualifies as an FF game. It's as much a linear JRPG as WoW is a RTS.

Quote:

---

Besides.. .it's only 5 and it looks like it will be 100%. Mythic only 3, 100% drop probably. Empyreans are stuck grinding voidwatch for abysmal drop rates and prices on 95 and 99 upgrades. I have lost all sympathy at this point.

---

Well we do seem to agree on the Empy path being a total screwjob

A few thoughts which I hope make it to the DEVs round table.

Mythics - Thanks to the increase in Zeni per plate this trial is perfectly reasonable. For that matter given what it takes to gain mythic, and that PW is very PuGable this should be NP.

Empyrean - 60 is just fine, Empyrean deserves no sympathy given the mass difference in the effort needed to create to a level 90 version. The fact that they are on par with or superior to both counterparts in the super weapon class justifies this. Yes, 1500 plates is 150m and about what relic costs but, empyrean doesn't cost a thing to get to 90 so it’s just leveling the playing field. Additionally, I doubt any rational person would say making mythic is comparable to making empyrean. However, some do claim relic is just as easy being a player can now solo farm the currency in roughly 90 days. To this argument, understand many Empyrean can be made in PuGs within a week. When people can say things like "you just need an empy" in reference to a super weapon there is an issue, imagine telling someone at 75 "you just need a relic".

Last is relic, which right now is the only class of super weapon that is in discussion.
A few thoughts, first kills trials are not reasonable for two reasons. First, once the initial rush to complete the trial is over players earning relic after or missing the rush will be in the same boat of gathering 18 people all of whom don't need the fight. Reason two this is a bad idea is that many of the common relic are shields and melee weapons, and Arch Dynamis Lord is not something that just any combination of job can do.

Next, as far as multiple drop points go, when an item is dropped from multiple mobs (even at a reduced rate, even then do you want Merrow to be any less than 100%?) players will always seek to kill the easiest of the bunch. This brings up a second issue where in Dynamis is a timed event, ANY cause for congestion is bad. Unlike Abyssea, Dynamis has a full 24 un-adjustable re-entry. Things will be no different than trying to get empyrean NMs before the x3 adjustment. Also, I don't think a simple ??? addition will suffice as in Abyssea there are ~18 empyrean NMs and that had issues imagine what happens if every relic holder wants one NM.

Another suggestion I've seen is gain 1m exp, and while that is an impressive number this too is unrealistic. I imagine that upon implementation players will quickly find level syncs willing to be bought/help. I believe Dynamis allows the double exp of last year meaning a possible 400exp/kill plus exp bands if those work. Dynamis would become a party zone for relic holders, which among congestion, will like with kill counts cause some players to have to help without benefit. (won’t find many healers doing relic trials) Aside from that, imagine what 1m exp would do to the Magian completion message one kill and 400 messages appear. Would likely involve altering the Magian System.

Another suggestion offers 10k kills of any kind. This is as simple as one of the greatest weapons of all time being brought to maximum potential by killing EP rabbits. A bit anticlimactic I would think. (Also kill count with a shield? I assume the wielder has to get finishing blow otherwise, it just Abyssea party time)

There is no point in going over why the current method is flawed since there is 100+ posts on it just be aware that a x1 drop from ADL won't work. This is the DEVs preferred method since players who jumped the gun and took Test Server data as final started collecting them.

However, I would like to expand on this idea. What if upon defeat ADL dropped a chest? (I know what you’re thinking OH GOD VW, be at ease I have an idea) This chest has 100% chance of Merrow + whatever else they want to put in, maybe some logs or something. All other drops will go to pool just as normal.
The benefits of this are as follows:
#1 Players who may already have the drops will still be able to use them as needed.
#2 Players will not be required to play the job of the weapon they wish to upgrade.
#3 In the event that later down the line players cannot find a team to finish off ADL they still have the option to buy (unlike kill count)
#4 While it is true this leads to 18x the drop rate this also means two important things first if a player sacrifices a drop to another player by trading it they will still have to obtain one themselves later, a player not upgrading relic can still choose to sell the drop as a means of compensation for helping the run. (This will also lower merc shell prices to one reasonable of players)

As previously stated this will increase the overall count of the item and as compensation a x2 or x3 (Definately not x18) to required turn ins. This is my least favorite of my ideas.

The bigger complaint is the difficulty of ADL at 99 which borders on Kirin at 75. This leads to my preferred idea.
Merrow would be added to Fait Lux as an x1 drop. The reasoning goes a little something like this.
(SPOILERS AHEAD)

First of all, Fait Lux has a maximum of 6 man entry, and much like Dynamis a once a day limit (Unless you stock in advance) This means a smaller group needed to obtain these items while still being a moderately challenging fight. However, unlike Dynamis in the event of congestion there is no time limit on the wait area for Fait Lux. So while congestion will still be an issue it’s not wasting a once a day opportunity.

Merrows in circulation would again be able to be used, (to not screw those who have them) while still maintaining an item drop meaning the relic jobs within the BCNM would not be required.

Now I know the DEVs want to keep the mythology behind Dynamis in relic trials but, as we should know the Crystal War era we experience in WoTG is the true crystal war not the weaker universe we know in our world. Many of the relic holders existed in this time just as they do in ours but, as shown in one of the CS they were soundly beaten at the Shadow Lords hands. Up until now we have been farming the remnants of the relic trapped within Dynamis, so why not go to the original and I do mean original (not our altered world) to obtain its maximum form. Rather than the current ADL which has no story or real reason to exist within Dynamis other then "additional content"

Now, for the drawbacks.
First, the Earth time needed for upgrades is unaltered (I would assume the number needed for completion is unaltered) with exception to the fact a team of 18 relic holders can go in 3 groups cutting the time between them in 1/3. (For those big relic lss)

This still doesn't answer the problem of finding help, however, it won't be wasting a 1-3m Dynamis run and spending a campaign op is a much lower opportunity cost, I imagine finding help would be easier.

Final drawback is the need to occupy and maintain control over the Northlands. I suggest a few things, first allow any allied faction to access Fait Lux so long as Altana controls the Northlands rather than just the nation occupying it. (There is no real reason to have players fighting themselves for control, when it’s the Shadowlord who is the enemy anyway) As far as gaining the Northlands in the first place a team of ~18 can easily steal the north, if every relic holder did this it would be ours very quickly and stay that way for a long time.

Obviously, its not 100% perfect but, one or both ideas I would think are preferred over the current option.
Sorry the post is so long, and if someone had this idea already sorry, I missed it. (just think of me restating an idea if that's the case)

Too complicated. Add the drop to NMs that can be killed by 3-6 people and increase the requirement to 20-30. Trial fixed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insaniac

Too complicated. Add the drop to NMs that can be killed by 3-6 people and increase the requirement to 20-30. Trial fixed.

---

All Arch bosses drop the item which allows for flexibility but the SE response: This would make the afterglow trial 'too easy'.

The problem with all Arch bosses is it mean you could in one Dynamis run do more then one probebly several. Unless you just mean the one boss in each zone, if that is the case all that would accomplish is making everyone seek the weakest one.

I'm sure someone will find fault in it but why not have the trial branch with the same rewards? (or even slightly different as i'll explain a lil further down)

branch 1:
The current 5 marrow/ 3 PW item / and void w/e (so then the people who started to gather early can be happy)

branch 2:
something solo or low-man that takes a 'long time' Ex: 5-10k kills with weapon (SE could even throw in a stipulation that doesnt allow you to get a stage 2 through this path, sortof like the fake empy's or something)

This would allow the marrows to still have value, and be the quicker path (given you have the support) to your relic and the people who can't or have a severe aversion to arch dynamis can slowly and safely work out their own upgrade.

Yes this will make it harder to get help on arch dynamis but in so far as i've seen nothing really promotes doing arch dynamis except changing his drops.

The problem with ADL still is nobody will want to go. People lose 2m gil each by helping you and with no benefit to them they will likly not want to help you.

Its much easier to get help with PW from random people because they don't lose anything in the process. With having to kill ADL you lose your dynamis lockout for the day which is worth about 2m in currency sales to you if you solo. Finding people to come help you kill ADL for only your benefit just won't fly with most people.

Do the devs even play the game. PW at level 99 is a complete joke. Last time I fought PW was at 90 and he was a joke even then but even more so now. Sure you have to kill a bunch of weak ZNM to build a pop but its much easier then killing ADL.

Just the way ADL works too you may or may not kill it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Natasha

I'm sure someone will find fault in it but why not have the trial branch with the same rewards? (or even slightly different as i'll explain a lil further down)

branch 1:
The current 5 marrow/ 3 PW item / and void w/e (so then the people who started to gather early can be happy)

branch 2:
something solo or low-man that takes a 'long time' Ex: 5-10k kills with weapon (SE could even throw in a stipulation that doesnt allow you to get a stage 2 through this path, sortof like the fake empy's or something)

This would allow the marrows to still have value, and be the quicker path (given you have the support) to your relic and the people who can't or have a severe aversion to arch dynamis can slowly and safely work out their own upgrade.

Yes this will make it harder to get help on arch dynamis but in so far as i've seen nothing really promotes doing arch dynamis except changing his drops.

---

All ideas have fault, otherwise they would be unconditionally the right answer. The idea has merit, please consider this constructive criticism. First, given the nature of these weapons I don't think they would ever close off Stage 2. Branching is a great idea but, there are two things I am nearly sure SE is going for. First, I'm fairly sure they wish to maintain a once a day limit as a means to balance casual and hardcore. In other words prevent a player playing 18 hours a day from having a major advantage over someone who plays 3. Second, and this I'm sure of, they want to maintain the Relic story meaning a trial to grant it power would need to have some origin with dynamis, or the crystal war era. Adjust the conditions to something related to one of the two and it could work. One path faster in a group, one designed for a small team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geabrielle

To hell with Prestige, if I cared about it I'd be crying as hard as everybody else about the unreal requirements. I can't dual box nor can I do RMTstyle 6 account ducklings in a row to kill stuff like the majority of bitching population. I'm solely at the mercy of having to maintain relationships with actual people, with varied schedules and demands on their lives. Yes, we're grown up now and I acknowledge that and thus time to accomplish things are precious. I also accept people with limited time are more than capable of setting priorities and staging their goals accordingly.... oh wait .. I forgot, this is WoWFantasy 2012.

Never mind.

---

Yeah keep on thinking you can con 17 other sheep into helping you. Nothing ADL drops is worth it, DL drops you would be better off in doing it with 6 to be done faster then fighting 16(17 if the guy you are doing ADL for is a dick) other people over it. Then out of those 17 others helping you how many have relic them selfs? If one has on then you are now over 10 kils you have to do and for each person you can add 5 to 7 kills if RNG doesn't crap on you too. You give you friends to much credit more so if they have a relic too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

All ideas have fault, otherwise they would be unconditionally the right answer. The idea has merit, please consider this constructive criticism. First, given the nature of these weapons I don't think they would ever close off Stage 2. Branching is a great idea but, there are two things I am nearly sure SE is going for. First, I'm fairly sure they wish to maintain a once a day limit as a means to balance casual and hardcore. In other words prevent a player playing 18 hours a day from having a major advantage over someone who plays 3. Second, and this I'm sure of, they want to maintain the Relic story meaning a trial to grant it power would need to have some origin with dynamis, or the crystal war era. Adjust the conditions to something related to one of the two and it could work. One path faster in a group, one designed for a small team.

---

1) There is no limit to the amount of time anyone can spend on either of the other weapon types per day so for these trials that is out the window.

2) The first 6 relic trials took place outside of dynamis so that is also out.

I ment specifically Relic, empyrean never had any limit and neither did mythic (outside prequests)

As far as prior trials that is correct, again this apply to only the 99 trial as it unlock the weapons true potential (On the assumption Afterglow is done in the same method as 99 only more) Mythic involves the strongest current ToAU enemy, Empyrean involves the strongest creatures of the Void. (A place on the other side of Atomos just like Abyssea)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

I ment specifically Relic, empyrean never had any limit and neither did mythic (outside prequests)

As far as prior trials that is correct, again this apply to only the 99 trial as it unlock the weapons true potential (On the assumption Afterglow is done in the same method as 99 only more) Mythic involves the strongest current ToAU enemy, Empyrean involves the strongest creatures of the Void. (A place on the other side of Atomos just like Abyssea)

---

I know you were talking about relics only but if they aren't concerned with limiting the effort you can put forth for the others why would that be a concern with relics when relics are the most abundant?

Mythics involves killing a level 75 content NM, Emps involve spamming dynamis for gil and camping bazaars. Consistency is a cop out. I would welcome a 30 day "perform 10k relic WS" trial instead of a 5 day "fuck your friends" trial or a 100 day "I'm a nice guy so I will help you now" trial. If consistency is a concern add a "10k WS" trial branch for all 3. Plenty of people would still do the item requirement stage 1s just to be done faster.

In the end its an irrelevant point, because in the end no matter what they do players will find a way around the trial so long as the item is purchasable. I think the only constant issue right now is ADL is far stronger then the other 2/3 required NMs for the other super weapons, so it either has to be changed to a new NM (only one so that everyone does the same fight, not just filter to the easiest NM that offers the drop) or there needs to be greater compensation for the other 17 players involved. Even at 1 required drop from ADL, those not lucky enough to have 18 people in their LS are basically being told you are SoL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

In the end its an irrelevant point, because in the end no matter what they do players will find a way around the trial so long as the item is purchasable.

---

Except ADL's item will pretty much never be purchasable...the only people who will be killing it are people who are gonna bite the bullet and concede to SE's retarded trial requirement. Once they're done, they're done lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

LOL man I wasn't going to say anything earlier.

1000 to 20, ppl still whine.

20 to 5, people still crying?

http://i33.tinypic.com/28lb4uf.jpg




I have an idea, SE should just make an NPC where you can trade your 95 relic and he'll give you the 99 version w/ afterglow in exchange

---

Ppl will then cry that they cant find this NPC...

Sorry, misunderstanding I was telling Insaniac we were basically discussing nothing since what the reasoning behind the choice of where merrow drops has nothing to do with the fact that ADL is not suitable.

As far as that second comment, so long as players have gil, there will always be those willing to throw gil around to get what they want. I wouldn't put it past players to offer 1-2m per player who go on a successful ADL run effectively making the final stage cost ~100-200m. With enough money players will buy anything and those lucky enough to have lots of gil often ruin it for others around them. personally, I have very little respect for players who buy r/x equipment or r/x trial items.

Let's say you can somehow magically manage to only get 5 people that need the relic upgrade to help you (the other 2 parties are just people helping out). 6*5 = 30 runs of dynamis * 2.5m lost per run = 75m lost. I see people selling rift items for a max of 1m each (which is way overpriced imo). Empyreans are not harder to upgrade than relics. Are the devs seriously this delusional?

The obvious solution is to just add primeval brews to Dynamis. I've never fought ADL but it seems he's disproportionately difficult to win consistently compared to PW and the 2 T6s, and that is the biggest complaint relic holders have. 5 seems like a reasonable number to collect. Sure linkshells with tons of relics will have to spend a lot of time in dynamis, but let's face it, there's crap all left to do in this game anyway. It just sucks that it's apparently a gamble if you'll even win after you extend the effort to pop ADL.

I'll probably be stuck at 90 Masamune forever at the rate I'm collecting HMPs. Sure I could spend weeks in abyssea grinding out crour to convert to 150+ million gil to buy all the plates, but it doesn't seem worth the effort for one trial which is just a stepping stone to the final trial. Even if people sold riftdross/cinder for 1 mil gil each, the final trial would still be less than half the cost of the 95 trial...

So yeah, these trials are a pain the in butt and I'd rather just grind out ws kills despite it's soul crushing dullness. What can you do? I guess keep whining and hopefully it won't blow up in your faces.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

All ideas have fault, otherwise they would be unconditionally the right answer. The idea has merit, please consider this constructive criticism. First, given the nature of these weapons I don't think they would ever close off Stage 2. Branching is a great idea but, there are two things I am nearly sure SE is going for. First, I'm fairly sure they wish to maintain a once a day limit as a means to balance casual and hardcore. In other words prevent a player playing 18 hours a day from having a major advantage over someone who plays 3. Second, and this I'm sure of, they want to maintain the Relic story meaning a trial to grant it power would need to have some origin with dynamis, or the crystal war era. Adjust the conditions to something related to one of the two and it could work. One path faster in a group, one designed for a small team.

---

Well, I was just speaking of it in concept... the specifics aren't 'as' important to me excepting the time gate for casual vs. hardcore. That idea is the same as the one used in the 'fatigue' system in ffxiv which was eventually abolished and for good reason.

Some facts:

NO, Empyrean never meant to be easier to make than relic or mythic
NO, 99 trial is not the only part of doing a 99 relic/mythic/empyrean
YES, 99 trial arent equally hard because they are based on how hard is to get 95 version

Mythic starts as hardcore then it goes to easy mode with trials
Relic starts with medium hard then go easy then its medium hard again
Empyrean starts easily then it goes to hard mode and then to medium mode

YES, all you do is whine, whine and whine when devs has already given you easiest option possible compared to what was planned on start

MAJORITY word used by Camato about ppl will got 99 meant MAJORITY of ppl who have 95 and want 99 not majority of all players.

...

Did this thread just magically re-appear again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

...

Did this thread just magically re-appear again?

---

Hahahaha yes it did!

Yes it appears that they have restored this thread from the nuke pile.

I think SE should be praised in the fact that they have realized a mistake and reversed itself and bringing this thread back.

Probably got tired of the 10 new threads per hour being created.

SE reversing a decision?

Gentlemen never do such things!

Might've been some specific post nuking while it was invisible to cut down on quotes and need to re-edit them out.

Hello Folks!

We are sorry that this thread disappeared for a few hours; we received some reports of abuse so we had to review the thread to be sure that the rules were being followed and, regrettably, this can take some time. Instead of risking the entire thread being lost, due to one or two people, we removed the ability to post on the thread until we could remove the offending posts. As this thread is over 600 posts long, this review took longer than expected.

Please feel free to continue with your debate but please keep the rules and policies in mind so we do not have to permanently close an active thread.

Thank you for your understanding.

-Senior Game Master Jhanaka

Do you chose your names or are they chosen for you.

its a totally legitimate question!

Hello!

We all choose our own names. =) I have had this nick for 7 years. This is all I shall post. Be well, my friends!

-SGM Jhanaka

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camiie

I'm not sure what's more impressive, your cleverness or your Dragonball picture collection.

---

I think thats more due to who he really is, Veggeto of fairy prior to our server merge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jhanaka

Hello!

We all choose our own names. =) I have had this nick for 7 years. This is all I shall post. Be well, my friends!

-SGM Jhanaka

---

Thats pretty cool, 7 Years...

Thank you for the response :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings.
Some of you have already posted the information that was on the Japanese forums, but here it is again, officially.
Required number of items
As a result of adjustments to match the trial difficulty, the below are the current numbers that are planned for the stage 1 version of the weapon upgrades.

• Relic Weapons: 5 items
• Mythic Weapons: 3 items
• Empyrean Weapons: 60 items

※As we are currently carefully looking into the number of items required for stage 2, we will let you know the specifics once the information is available.

---

Well sure it a big drop from imaginary number they had used but they also stated it was just a figure they used NOT the actual number needed. So no one should be jumping for joy or even being thankful as it was just a random number "supposedly".

Neways I wouls much rather have a way higher number of kills for the trials instead of a few items needed. And also so no hard feelings have the drops that was needed be worth say 5 kills. As far as the afterglow its more of a status symbol than anything else. But i dont know to many that are happy with just getting their Raja Ring and saying ah i dont care bout finishing the last 5 missions...

On a kinda side note obtaining the base weapons for these trials empys are pretty easy and now so are relics just takes a little time for either and can be solo'd. In my opinion relics are going to take a little more time to do. But Mythic weapons are insane to obtain and there is NO WAY of obtaining soloing at all. And yet you can hardly say any of them are better than the other. I dont have a mythic it would be nice but to me thats a slap in the face to people who have taken the time to do it!!!

Jhanaka is an old school GM... Check out that Tiamat action.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...ered/TiaGM.jpg

Mythic will be the easiest trial to finish, then relic, then empy. You could probably do all 3 pw in one day once they patch the new zeni ammounts.

On an individual basis taking nothing else into account you are right. If no one ever had trouble building an ADL alliance and there weren't 10x as many relics as mythics and 95 emps combined then there wouldn't be much of a problem.

I would consider Emps easier than Relics since it's easy to fight the VW NM to the point i would easily do the emp trail instead of the relic.