Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.

@odd waffle

Actually, SE didn't have to convert any currency in the process--that is all handled between the financial orginazations involved. USD has been a centralized currency in the markets for YEARS as one of the baselines.

The shift is more likely to simply get out of their POL database because it was either proprietary or otherwise not capable of handling scripting like so many other databases that are so easliy manageable with a simple language like SQL. Moving to a more stremalined and manageable database model will allow them to automate and otherwise streamline all processes, potentially reducing downtime and reducing daily operating costs considerably.

So, from that viewpoint, migrating the data makes perfect sense. But then that poses an even bigger problem. You need a secure connection to a CC processor for completing transactions. It appears in the old system, they were sluffing off the process to regional offices (US payments showed up as being from their CA division and not Tokyo), so they were processing US payments through a US processor in US dollar amounts via a secure connection between that office and that regional CC processor. After this move, they may have a streamlined database capable of using simple query and update statements to pull/update that data on the fly. They could potentially arrange to make a secure connection from Tokyo to a US CC processor, poll the necessary data from the new database (such as Square Enix USA, CA details, $12.95 USD, other necessary details) to build the XML string to process the payment directly from Tokyo, on behalf of the US division plunking that money into the US divisions bank accounts--effectively doing the same thing without having to suynchronize all the data to the US first for local processing and then synching it back to JP.

There may be some legal constraints to this though...if so, the system should still be much more efficient at transfering just the required info to the regional office for processing to bypass those constraints and then sling it back to Tokyo. Less data means shorter transfers and less downtime, and by being able to use a more robust scripting language it allows more automation as well which results in less payroll cost in the end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sparthos

Honest question: Do you immediately get locked out of these forums if your account goes inactive due to nonpayment?

I ask because last month when SEs biller goofed and locked out my character, I was still able to post on these boards.

---

That remains to be seen. Don't think we've been given an answer to that from SE, maybe... don't remember.

But it could be that when you try to sign in with your SE ID, you are flagged for not having your POL account transferred yet, and get sent directly to the transfer page, effectively blocking you from getting into the forums. The forums are requiring some game data that is in the POL system and needs to be transfered to your SE account so it can validate you and log you into the forums.

So, in a round-about way, you may get blocked from the forums until you transfer all your remaining POL data to SEID.

i agree with not wanting to deal with click and buy. when i made my account on there the day ffxiv came out, my bank shut my card off due to that site being notorious for credit card fraud. took me a few days to get everything straightened out.

what's so hard about processing our cards yourselves SE?!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knives

...All this proves is that Square-Enix has a lot to learn about billing its customers, even nine years later.

---

lol not only in the billing department, SE also has a lot to learn making MMO even with 9 years of experience, look at how 14 started. Its shocking, really.

I think 14 proved the head of 11 had a bit more of an ego than he should have, look at 14 for a bit, yeah sure its gameplay style is a bit different but you cant help but think they were trying to make 14 an awful lot like 11, too much like 11 infact, and they spent way too much money developing a lackluster gaming engine (that requires far too high of specs for the PC) for it when they could have used one of the half way decent ones already out there

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niyariko

lol not only in the billing department, SE also has a lot to learn making MMO even with 9 years of experience, look at how 14 started. Its shocking, really.

---

No argument there. Buying FFXIV is the worst video game related choice I've made in years. Sigh.

hehe.. fortunately I was lucky enough to get in on the beta, so I was lucky enough to get advanced notice and not buy it yet.

+1's for the last few posts.... if we could.... /liked

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RAIST

hehe.. fortunately I was lucky enough to get in on the beta, so I was lucky enough to get advanced notice and not buy it yet.

+1's for the last few posts.... if we could.... /liked

---

I was in the beta as well, in fact, I was one of the few lucky ones who got invited into Alpha late march 2010. And I was keep on telling my self that "this is only alpha/beta, and SE only showing a fraction of the game, it will be great when is out"...

I was wrong, so wrong, nothing changed in the released version.

edit: btw I just found out one of the post was nuked by SE (Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system) I hope they don't nuke this one as well.

They can delete the post, but they can never delete our concerns (until the issue is fixed).;)

So here goes. Less then 12 hours til the server maintenance. Will I still be playing FFXI on Tuesday or will my Accts be cancelled because of SEs screwups. I got cought up in the 1Jul fiasco and as a result I was suspended for non payment even though their billing company had my payment for 17 days before they reversed it. As a result I had I had to reverify my card and reactivate my ID. Because of this I was not able to transfer to SE Account Managent system until after the 1 Aug billing. Question is will they be using the old system? If so then I should be fine......I hope. If not then they will not get paid in Aug, I will not be able to transfer and I will lose my Acct. Sad part is I have more then enough Crysta purchased from setting up FFXIV that this could have been avoided. Just cannot access it. What infuriates me is the fact that SE is totally ignoring this situation. I could not get a straight answer from Live chat and they have totally ignored these forums. Wish me luck.

As I understood it, POL will still be in service through to 8/31 (they're also giving us until then to transfer and get the item). So we should get through this billing cycle fine if still on the old system.

The next cycle may be in question though (reference the 8/31 cutoff for the free item). They could be planning to do one more billing via POL and then kill it completely after that maybe.

But considering as it's stated now, it sounds like we can't get into game after 8/31 without transferring so I would expect they weren't planning to bill anymore via the POL system after this cycle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niyariko

I was in the beta as well, in fact, I was one of the few lucky ones who got invited into Alpha late march 2010. And I was keep on telling my self that "this is only alpha/beta, and SE only showing a fraction of the game, it will be great when is out"...

I was wrong, so wrong, nothing changed in the released version.

edit: btw I just found out one of the post was nuked by SE (Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system) I hope they don't nuke this one as well.

They can delete the post, but they can never delete our concerns (until the issue is fixed).;)

---

That is a little disconcerting....if anything, they should have stickied it. That way if SE doesn't fix it and the boss goes on a tirade at their next quarterly meeting and wants to know WTF happened, they'll have something to explain it. Last I saw it was up to $800 of lost recurring revenue--and that's just from a small sampling of the playerbase.

Methinks some of the higher-ups got spooked.

I call Fascism.

It's probably more of a bandwagon prevention thing. "Hey, they aren't paying SE, I won't, either! They'll have no choice!" So probably more of a business decision than just to 'hide the truth'. It may even be archived or moved to a Dev-only forum.

Hiding the truth IS a business decision..... just a very unethical one.

If they wanna be unethical, they could just overcharge all our creditcard while they still can, then close all ffxi service, at least that would be a better use of unethical "immediate profitable" business decision. ;)

/joking

Made the migration (my bad), didn't choose a payment method. Now today no more content ID. K, thanks,bye see you later after they change their crap(perhaps)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by malf

Made the migration (my bad), didn't choose a payment method. Now today no more content ID. K, thanks,bye see you later after they change their crap(perhaps)

---

same for me

We shouldn't start counting again "I'll quit coz of this" in this thread, or else SE will nuke this thread just like how they deleted "Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system." without give us a reason why. ;)

hehe... that would be interesting....delete the more or less main thread on the issue---with over 600 posts in it and still no post from a mod in it, just some mediation action on some posts.

Hope they actually are taking note of the new posters coming in here like that. Each new name registering a complaint puts us one step closer to the threshold that puts a fire under someone's butt to make a decision on how to handle it.

Edit: @Alukat
might want to clean up the tags a bit. It's getting a little out of hand down there.

Like RAIST said, over 600 posts and nothing from SE about this.... TBH, I'm a little concerned about what's going to happen at the end of the month with the payment options. It's obvious Moderators have been in this thread (judging from the deleted posts etc), so they'd have to know that people are concerned about this and want some answers.

I don't think it's too much to ask that SE respond to this, more than what they've done already (with that statement issued by Matt "Bayohne" Hilton, the other day) and re-examine the situation. 62 pages in, and nothing told so far about what's being done to rectify this situation, isn't going to go down well with the consumer base at all. Granted there are some who acting concerned about this and are offering their own opinions/advice (I think we know who they are), as well as some are 'raging', but ultimately, there are people who want to know what's going on here. Is that too much to ask?

Sorry to lazy out on this but Ive caught a lot of posts of my bank auto-blocks click and buy. Do we have a list of major banks that do this. I think from the business side the loss in billing if some big names show up there is the most convincing way to have them expedite other payment plans.

No Mod is going to post in here without having to close the Thread for obvious reasons. I sincerely hope that for everyone's sake SE IS paying attention. Over 600 posts even if it is a relatively small sampling of the player base warrants a definitive response.

How many players are not going to be able to play at all because payment options aren't available in their countries is as yet unknown. People who have previously been able to pay with Pre-paid debit cards now can't and an overwhelming number of people who refuse to do business with ClickandBuy should have sent up an enormous RED FLAG to SE.

The weekend is over SE, time to get back to work and take care of the mess you have made.

What should really catch SE's attention is the number of first-time posters that apparently sought out the Official Forums solely to express their displeasure at this change.

Alot of players I've talked to don't even know about the change, let alone the shadiness of CnB.

"This month's payments have not yet processed. Please try again next month."

Looks like I don't even get to see the evils of cnb until "next month" if I believe the autoresponse the SE site gave me, though I'm guessing it's just a lockout until POL charges my card.

[sarcasm]This whole cnb stuff sounds awesome. First we had our playonline account and password. Then we had that whole verified by visa account and password crap. Oh yeah, and then the square enix account and password. And now a click and buy account and password. I sure hope they require me to have more accounts and passwords soon, I just can't get enough of them![/sarcasm]

Just wanted to copy this here to make sure you guys saw our post on the FAQ thread:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayohne

Greetings all,

We wanted to take a moment to let you know that we are aware of the comments and discussions taking place regarding the new payment procedures not only on the official forum, but on the community sites, as well.

While we don't have specific details to share at this time, we do want to inform you that improving the payment processing options are still a part of an ongoing process. We will continue to take all the feedback we receive as we strive to make the experience as user-friendly as possible for all of our customers going forward.

---

Please continue to provide your feedback, it is continually added to our discussions.

this is complete BS SE, why force us to use a 3rd party to handle monthly payment, now my friend cant even login or pay now, and i fear for myself afetr i transfer over. Why Fix Something that was not broke!?

At least it looks like they're taking our feedback to heart.

Quote:

---

Why Fix Something that was not broke!?

---

Concerning my money, I woulld rather not wait for it to break.

Playonline is a decade old system, it can no way in any shape or form be sufficient to keep up with security systems in today and tomorrow's environment.

Also SE's Eidosmontreal website was hacked in March.

Finally a response, thanks SE, just try and be a bit quicker when there is obviously a huge outcry...either way good to hear that you are hearing us

clickandbuy is garbage.

My wife and I pay on two different credit cards and use two different tokens (some how she thought my mouth might get me banned some day and didn't want her account banned with me).

Registered my account with clickandbuy and linked it fine to my account.

Registered my wife's account with clickandbuy and they put a hold on it. We called and they want printouts of checking account and utility bills to verify she resides at this address. So I had them pull up my account and verified she lives here but that's not enough..... so, the only way I can setup payment without giving clickandbuy information I wouldn't give anyone else is to cancel my wife's token and link her to my account then I can have billing work.

Total BS!

For anyone calling, I was told there are no supervisor's working after 1700 London time... so my call at noon PST was too late today to talk to one.

Paypal would be an excellent payment method.

I would be glad to setup a payment with paypal ~ while they do have shady issues of their own, I'd take them over clickandbuy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Finuve

Finally a response, thanks SE, just try and be a bit quicker when there is obviously a huge outcry...either way good to hear that you are hearing us

---

Their quote was a re-post from a response from last week.

Well, at least they're still communicating with us. I figured they'da worked on it last week and over the weekend, and come out with an annoucement of the fix today. I guess they need more time yet.

Just say patient fellas, they're working on it.

May their solution be satisfactory.

For those of us that have not transferred yet, are we okay for the August payment? I noticed today that my account had not been charged today. I was hoping to hold out for a bit in hopes that another option might become available before the 31st of August.

For what its worth, we have to understand the Reps here aren't in contact with Square Enix, they're in contact with the Development team for FFXI.

And im sure it was not the Dev teams choice to make this new billing system, it was likely the higher ups. The reps can only respond with the info they're given (like specifics), But i doubt they can get to a higher-up SE official and ask them to change it.

Edit: Which seems to not be true based on the previous Rep post in this thread. hurray for me missing it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hvinire

Just wanted to copy this here to make sure you guys saw our post on the FAQ thread:


Please continue to provide your feedback, it is continually added to our discussions.

---

Thanks for the effort Hvinire, but Matt's post has already been referenced and quoted. And, I mean no disrespect when I say this, but it really does nothing to encourage us that anything is being considered that would actually rectify the situation. I'm not trying to single you or any of the moderators out with this post--I know how your hands are tied as I have worked support for a private software firm that was responsible to corporate and government entities and I know the rock-in-a-hard-place spot you guys are left with So please if I offend, I do not mean to. I just feel the need to put something on record detailing how I and many others view this situation in one post that you may be able to forward up the chain of command that are governing the flow of information, as well as those making the determinations for development that directly affect the issues at hand.

One of the biggest problems people have with this change is the disparity between the billing options between JP region and all other regions. For YEARS SE has preached both regional and platform equality within the scope of FFXI. This decision to continue this option for one specific region with no explanation for why it has been denied to everyone else just simply contradicts SE's past declarations in regard to balance. SE REALLY needs to make a definitive statement on just WHY this decision was made--and whether they are looking to rectify that SPECIFIC issue, not just the billing processes in general as they did with Matt's post. This is gearing up to be one of the biggest Public Relations blunders I have seen in a loooong time. This has the potential to have a long term affect on SE's bottom line--it potentially can affect not only FFXI revenues in the short term, but also the revenues of all other current and future projects. It's just human nature...once bitten, twice shy. Just look at what has happened with the distrust over Click&Buy in the corporate world that has filtered into the distrust of the consumers for a recent example.

It is known that SE is capable of processing credit card payments for the other regions (as evidenced by their online stores). It is also known that SE knows how to bill those credit cards specifically for FFXI subscription fees (as evidenced by how long it's been done through POL). It is known that they have come up with a way to accept the credit card information through the SE account pages (as evidenced by the JP regional transfer guide).

Taking all that into account, it would appear to the general public that SE has all the pieces to the puzzle already to make the direct pay credit card option available to the other regions. Granted, there may be some issues in making all the pieces fit now as things are getting restructured with moving to a different database, maybe new PCI-DSS requirements, or FSA regulations and what-not. If so, why can't SE let you guys pass that one.

All we're asking for is a little more information than...we are aware of the comments... it's a work in progress. How about something more along the lines of.... we are aware of the players concerns of issues with credit card processing but due to specific difficulties we are unable to continue this service for all regions, but we are looking into alternative solutions to the problem.

As it stands right now....many are just throwing their hands in the air and not expecting anything to be done about it. This is doing NOTHING to encouraging people to give you guys the benefit of the doubt and the possibility of a mass exodus from either just FFXI or Square-Enix in general is increasing daily with the silence. If they could at the very least release a statement that clearly states they are putting forth a best effort attempt to provide this direct-pay by credit card to all regions, it would salvage a LOT of pending loss of revenue. There are many that may opt to continue subscribing via Crysta in the short term if they know they stand a reasonable chance to go back to directly billing their credit cards.

Please... just let us know exactly where SE stands on this issue. And don't be afraid to divulge the specifics. Trust me...even if it is just a cost issue with maintaining the service, you might be surprised by how many might be willing to pay slightly more for the added convenience and security. If you don't believe me, here is a real-life example:

A firm I worked for developed a front end for processing tax payments online. The counties would always balk at the credit card processing fees from the clearing houses and did not want to absorb the costs. In EVERY case they ended up passing that fee directly to the customer. We clearly displayed there would be a fee incurred to cover the cost of using an online processor, broke the fess down in the shopping cart so they could see it and decide to cancel the transaction. NO ONE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE FEES. In every case, in-house traffic reduced. Most counties put up kiosks so those that did walk-in could pay without standing in line--and they happily paid the extra fee without a word even though they were right there in the cashiers office. In the end, operational costs were reduced, and some even requested more applications to do the same thing. We wound up taking the same structure and built applications for them to accept water bill payments, family court payments, traffic court tickets, vehicle tax and license plates, and even the entire Parks and Recreations division went online for one county--allowing residents to reserve park facilities, sign up for community classes and activities (soccer, basketball, baseball, etc and could even order and pay for uniforms through the portal). All along, being notified of the extra fee being passed along, and happily and willingly paying that extra fee as it justified the added convenience.

Please, do not underestimate the value of disclosure when dealing with an issue with as much an impact as this.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azaril

this is complete BS SE, why force us to use a 3rd party to handle monthly payment, now my friend cant even login or pay now, and i fear for myself afetr i transfer over. Why Fix Something that was not broke!?

---

It was broken already. People who didn't have 3D Secure cards have had to fight Square to take their money for years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Septimus

It was broken already. People who didn't have 3D Secure cards have had to fight Square to take their money for years.

---

and now those that COULD use a credit card are being denied, and for some it is the ONLY way to pay, as C&B can't process payments, and Crysta not offered by SE.

The point is....the new options should have been made available in PARALLEL to the current 3DS option so ALL bases are covered--along the lines of what they are doing for JP region. Japanese players have virtually NOTHING preventing them from paying for FFXI. They get the added benefit of a secured CC option direct to SE and not through a third party, or they can go through a currency vendor and buy Crysta if the want/need to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RAIST

and now those that COULD use a credit card are being denied, and for some it is the ONLY way to pay, as C&B can't process payments, and Crysta not offered by SE.

The point is....the new options should have been made available in PARALLEL to the current 3DS option so ALL bases are covered--along the lines of what they are doing for JP region. Japanese players have virtually NOTHING preventing them from paying for FFXI. They get the added benefit of a secured CC option direct to SE and not through a third party, or they can go through a currency vendor and buy Crysta if the want/need to.

---

The point is that it was broken for some people already.

Do I think that this is the best system possible? No, I do not. But the old system was terrible for some people also.

Yes, it would be best if we have the option for direct credit cards (like the Japanese players have) and Crysta available, but Crysta is not the Apocalypse.