To: Mr Akihiko Matsui

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

If endgame is your game, yeah I understand that. But endgame is not the only reason I would play an MMO.

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Endgame isn't my game either, actually. As I've explained, variety is my game, and you only get that here at the level cap.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

And this was a better system than what we have now because _________.


(also, I've made several posts pointing out a few ways actual "know-how" was much less important to getting XP than strict adherence to a flawed catechism)

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Because it included aspects of the game I enjoyed. Because it separated us into a class of player that was pro-active and was generally rewarded for their effort whereas those who couldn't or refused to just quit. Call it hardcore or whatever you want, but I'm really trying to stay away from unjustly classifying those who couldn't meet the standards set by the generally unforgiving nature of the game.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Earlier FFXI was pretty strict on just about everything required to do just about anything in the game. I wouldn't call him lazy, but you definitely didn't accomplish as much as you would like to if you didn't have enough patience, know-how and willingness to take it up the initiative to make something happen.

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my whole point is that he clearly DOES have the willingness and so on. he not only succeeded at endgame, he excelled. he was killing arch dynamis lord when arch dynamis lord was the most difficult fight in the game, before embrava even.

he quit again because our ls fell apart, and voidwatch made him feel hopeless.

he's proof enough to me that people ARE willing to put in a REASONABLE amount of time and effort towards an attainable objective. people don't need it handed to them, but they're also not willing to bash their head against the wall over and over again for it.

and that's basically all the old xp system was, repeatedly bashing your head against the wall. if you could do it once, you COULD do it a million times... so why did we HAVE to do it a million times?

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Because it included aspects of the game I enjoyed.

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Empty if you can't articulate reasons why you enjoyed it.

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Because it separated us into a class of player that was pro-active and was generally rewarded for their effort whereas those who couldn't or refused to just quit.

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That happens as much as ever; it just happens at 99 now.

I've soloed 7 Cirein-Croin Lanterns (need 50 for a particular stage of Masamune) since I started posting in this thread.

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Call it hardcore or whatever you want, but I'm really trying to stay away from unjustly classifying those who couldn't meet the standards set by the generally unforgiving nature of the game.

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Saying they aren't allowed to have fun isn't any better.

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Originally Posted by Slaxx

That Penta Thrust SAM wasn't pulling hate off of you because he was holding back. If he wasn't then he was doing something very, very wrong. If he was holding back it's because you weren't holding up your end of the bargain. He was probably riding Seigan instead of Hasso, slowing down attack rounds and lowering DPS and WS frequency. The accuracy that comes with Hasso may have made a difference too depending on level and camp. If the SAM isn't going as hard as he can that is slowing down the already painful process of leveling.

The math has been done, if you take the time you can look it up. Throwing shuriken on NIN is a loss in DPS, which means less hate, which means it's making it harder for you to tank.

EDIT Oh the fail is strong now. That's a 192 delay not 1.92. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's 3+ seconds delay (plus animation? not 100% sure on that). In that time you are definitely getting in at least one attack round if not 2. According to that link they can be bought from an NPC for 7-10k gil, or made as a medium-high level crafting recipe (above the old soft cap of 60), and involve a HQ result from making Steel Ingots. If these were ever even made they went for a pretty penny. On top of the already (moderately) expensive cost of ninja tools (especially if you were using those as often as you claim) that's a lot of gil down the drain to make you do LESS damage overall.

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Every time I quote to post today, for some reason I automatically get the above post... Anyone know what's that about?

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

I applaud you for at least having whatever it takes to provide an answer, as the others don't seem to have. Would it be OK with you in future games if there were no EXP or levels to grind at all? Why or why not?

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We have provided answers, solutions and alternatives. You simply ignored us because you're childish.

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Originally Posted by Doombringer

my whole point is that he clearly DOES have the willingness and so on. he not only succeeded at endgame, he excelled. he was killing arch dynamis lord when arch dynamis lord was the most difficult fight in the game, before embrava even.

he quit again because our ls fell apart, and voidwatch made him feel hopeless.

he's proof enough to me that people ARE willing to put in a REASONABLE amount of time and effort towards an attainable objective. people don't need it handed to them, but they're also not willing to bash their head against the wall over and over again for it.

and that's basically all the old xp system was, repeatedly bashing your head against the wall. if you could do it once, you COULD do it a million times... so why did we HAVE to do it a million times?

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I guess your agreement we should start the game at cap says all I need to know. :)

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Empty if you can't articulate reasons why you enjoyed it.

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I enjoyed it because I liked playing 19/20 of the jobs and watching them progress gradually, anticipating that next level and/or great spell or ability I'd been looking out for. And the whole point is the anticipation. It's about the journey for me and less about the reward. I liked it because the system was so unforgiving that you could immediately tell who wasn't doing their part and as well who was going above and beyond what's normally seen to make things good. There were bad groups with bad players that made the grind awful, and there were good players that welcomed the responsibility of their role and begged for more. Having the contrast between the two types made the grind all the more thrilling when things went beautifully because your focus began to transition from EXP/hour to "God this is so great, I don't want to leave! Killing these things over and over isn't so bad because 110% of my group is giving it 110%." You begin to appreciate the bond this feeling creates between NA/EU/JP players alike that the auto-translator can't define. You don't care if your tank is throwing shuriken or attacking with pom-poms, because something's obviously being done right. It's only a video game, but I'll be damned if it doesn't add a sense of self-worth to your personal repertoire of esteem-boosters. Something as trivial to you as a means to an end actually is my end. This feeling was my endgame.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

I guess your agreement we should start the game at cap says all I need to know. :)

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Why do you insist on making the same false dichotomy over and over again?

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

I enjoyed it because I liked playing 19/20 of the jobs and watching them progress gradually, anticipating that next level and/or great spell or ability I'd been looking out for. And the whole point is the anticipation. It's about the journey for me and less about the reward. I liked it because the system was so unforgiving that you could immediately tell who wasn't doing their part and as well who was going above and beyond what's normally seen to make things good. There were bad groups with bad players that made the grind awful, and there were good players that welcomed the responsibility of their role and begged for more. Having the contrast between the two types made the grind all the more thrilling when things went beautifully because your focus began to transition from EXP/hour to "God this is so great, I don't want to leave! Killing these things over and over isn't so bad because 110% of my group is giving it 110%." You begin to appreciate the bond this feeling creates between NA/EU/JP players alike that the auto-translator can't define. You don't care if your tank is throwing shuriken or attacking with pom-poms, because something's obviously being done right. It's only a video game, but I'll be damned if it doesn't add a sense of self-worth to your personal repertoire of esteem-boosters. Something as trivial to you as a means to an end actually is my end. This feeling was my endgame.

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What makes you believe you can literally only have these experiences during a rigid level grind?

What, do you think nobody ever makes small pick-up groups for anything? Have you been to Port Jeuno since you resubbed, like, ever? You could make a pretty strong case that the game is more focused around efficient six-man parties than it ever was; it's just reversed the location of those and huge alliances.

If I were so interested in steamrolling through content do you think I'd still be playing? My dramatically unimpressive FFXIAH profile is on display, man.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

What makes you believe you can literally only have these experiences during a rigid level grind?

What, do you think nobody ever makes small pick-up groups for anything? Have you been to Port Jeuno since you resubbed, like, ever?

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If it isn't rigid, I don't want it. If it isn't strict and unforgiving, you can keep it.

And, PUG's for what, exactly?

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

If it isn't rigid, I don't want it. If it isn't strict and unforgiving, you can keep it.

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You kind of missed the point, here. You could remove the word "rigid" from my post and it would still be the same. If it absolutely must be a level grind and the level grind absolutely must be rigid, then you really should give Aion a shot, but on your way out the door I'd like to hear you explain why you thought such a weird and parochial opinion wouldn't be in the deep minority.

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And, PUG's for what, exactly?

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Uh, pretty much everything other than Legion and Neo-Nyzul.

Would you believe that Voidwatch is designed from the ground up specifically to be pug-friendly (if not, strictly speaking, easy)?

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

If it isn't rigid, I don't want it. If it isn't strict and unforgiving, you can keep it.

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Go play Aion, then. I hear it's right up your ally (I personally wouldn't know because I've never played it).

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

And, PUG's for what, exactly?

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For starters, leveling parties. There are some lucky people in here who have had static leveling parties but I am not one of them so all of my leveling parties have been PuGs.

Also, as I have mentioned over and over again, the leveling game was ALWAYS forgiving once you got out there and starting hitting things, but getting there involved navigating a metagame pushed by borderline psychopaths.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

I guess your agreement we should start the game at cap says all I need to know. :)

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I'm going to reiterate some things that I've already said to you several times since you keep acting like they haven't been said / known from the get go.

For the thousandth time, the old leveling system is still there. Your not able to use it because people don't want to do it with you. this does not mean that there is a problem with the game. This simply means that you will have to try harder to find people to do it.

The developers saw that many people didn't want to do that any more, so they made new methods for leveling. They were considerate of the people who did not like the faster methods and left the old methods available. In this way, people who find leveling to be an enjoyable experience are free to do so.

As far as starting at level cap goes, there are all sorts of reasons for keeping leveling in the game. The least of which is the fact that people like you still enjoy it. There are a bunch of quests / missions involved with level cap increases etc. that would have to be remade / removed. Why bother when most people are content with how it is?

Yesterday while I was changing jobs for a VW run, I saw some guy shouting for a 65 party on colibri. Guess what.... he found people. I actually see people in small groups exping from time to time, so your right that people shouldn't say "No one wants to do that. I think it would be more accurate to say "No one wants to have to do that".

I think it was pretty nice of the devs to leave in the old leveling elements for people like you who are nostalgic about them. They could have just went "from now on all mobs give 1,000 experience points and all level caps are 5,000 exp. now Go find the zone with the best clustering of level 3 mobs that link and have 1 guy thundaga all the things!".

I still don't understand the desire to force people to play with you by removing what they like from the game though. I wish my friends liked FFXI, but I don't petition XBOX to remove all other games so that they have to play with me. In both scenarios, I imagine most people would choose to just not play with me regardless.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

I'll put this as plainly as I can. 99% of the people I could otherwise get to join me on this venture are in Gusgen or CN; Anyone that's not has their flag up en route or waiting to join them. 99% of the people you say I could simply "get to go with me" are not interested. Any clearer?

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Oh dear, I really do pity you, seems like you are such a socially inept creature with zero friend in this game if you can't even get 1-2 person to join your adventure of doing old school style party. Here is a tip or two, learn how to use search function, got it? In most of the FoV area there are always a few loners who more than willing to duo trio with you since it means faster xp for them and faster kill to repeat the pages. Usually that works fine on lvl 10-50s. If you do indeed have a LS and actually able to form some sort of bonds, here is another tip - you see that black belt BCNM??? Yeah that one, that consume tons of your precious KS.... Why not try to appeal to other people by suggesting farming kindred crest party and take turn at lotting. Those lvl 60s-80s mob drop em, and the more people you have in your party the more chances it drops every 5 mnts. Between beastmen seals and KS, that should be appealing enough for 1-2 ppl at the minimum. You can also appeal to those on your LS who aby burn their warriors, since they need weapon skill ups, MANY kind of weapons. Lvl synch makes that much faster.

You see, start changing your way of thinking dear. NOBODY CARES what you want, but they sure DO CARES of what they want. Now use that analogy and try to appeal what other people want - that aligned with what you want. If you still have no clue how to interpret this, use brain cells. Many stuffs in the game people want, you just have to appeal to them instead of what you want, just make sure it is similar to what you want to create win win situation.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Oh dear, I really do pity you, seems like you are such a socially inept creature with zero friend in this game if you can't even get 1-2 person to join your adventure of doing old school style party. Here is a tip or two, learn how to use search function, got it? In most of the FoV area there are always a few loners who more than willing to duo trio with you since it means faster xp for them and faster kill to repeat the pages. Usually that works fine on lvl 10-50s. If you do indeed have a LS and actually able to form some sort of bonds, here is another tip - you see that black belt BCNM??? Yeah that one, that consume tons of your precious KS.... Why not try to appeal to other people by suggesting farming kindred crest party and take turn at lotting. Those lvl 60s-80s mob drop em, and the more people you have in your party the more chances it drops every 5 mnts. Between beastmen seals and KS, that should be appealing enough for 1-2 ppl at the minimum. You can also appeal to those on your LS who aby burn their warriors, since they need weapon skill ups, MANY kind of weapons. Lvl synch makes that much faster.

You see, start changing your way of thinking dear. NOBODY CARES what you want, but they sure DO CARES of what they want. Now use that analogy and try to appeal what other people want - that aligned with what you want. If you still have no clue how to interpret this, use brain cells. Many stuffs in the game people want, you just have to appeal to them instead of what you want, just make sure it is similar to what you want to create win win situation.

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Thanks for your suggestions. I'll try to employ them once I gain a few brain cells. Meantime I'll block you and talk to you at that time. Bye.

In case Eyeball still has some reading comprehension, here is a bullet point list:

- Old school camp and old school style way of xp are never gone, its in the game, and it is better than before with FoV and GoV plus double xp and xp rings.
- Travelling style is amazingly more convenient now with Abyssea warp, Outpost warp, and VW warp. All those VW warp conveniently drop you to major dungeons and lvlng area of old school style party.
- Bazillion people love to level their mules or a bunch of their afk friends. Find them on Boyahda, join them, reap the nice xp per page bonus while you skill up and help pull or whatnot.
- There are tons of loner such as yourself who wander around in FoV areas, ask them to team up, make duo-trio party, use your xp rings, they will be glad to speed up the shitty grind.
- Try to make friends... end of story. Appeal to your friend sense, ask if they craft - duo trio mobs that drops items your friend needs to craft, so you can enjoy relaxed way to gain xp while they get materials to craft on site.
- Make skill ups party shout instead of old school party, no one gives a rat ass on that, but they do pay attention on how painful skilling up is - safety in numbers while you get faster xp rate on GoV books repeat.
- Appeal to their sense of need, suggest kindred crest or beastmen seal party.
- Find a buddy to do scroll farm party in deserted areas such as Sea Serpent Grotto.
- Grab a bunch of people who needs Alexander battle, hit Halvung or Mount Zhalyom for those trolls, the ore they drop is 30k each.
- Make a puk party, those puk eggs sell for pretty penny. Make ruzror party if you feel adventurous, their meat sells nicely as well.
- Look at those magian trials stuffs, be creative with your shout. TONS of people do these trials, they would rather grab 5 other people and kill stuffs fast. Level synch sometimes offer them faster easier way to do this. This is where you come.
- Get your way of thinking changed. What is xp party anyway? nothing but stupid grind, why not make it as "farming" party, it is a grind anyway, you have to farm anyhow. Never ask what other people can help you, cuz they don't care about you - always propose win win situation.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I'm going to reiterate some things that I've already said to you several times since you keep acting like they haven't been said / known from the get go.

For the thousandth time, the old leveling system is still there. Your not able to use it because people don't want to do it with you. this does not mean that there is a problem with the game. This simply means that you will have to try harder to find people to do it.

The developers saw that many people didn't want to do that any more, so they made new methods for leveling. They were considerate of the people who did not like the faster methods and left the old methods available. In this way, people who find leveling to be an enjoyable experience are free to do so.

As far as starting at level cap goes, there are all sorts of reasons for keeping leveling in the game. The least of which is the fact that people like you still enjoy it. There are a bunch of quests / missions involved with level cap increases etc. that would have to be remade / removed. Why bother when most people are content with how it is?

Yesterday while I was changing jobs for a VW run, I saw some guy shouting for a 65 party on colibri. Guess what.... he found people. I actually see people in small groups exping from time to time, so your right that people shouldn't say "No one wants to do that. I think it would be more accurate to say "No one wants to have to do that".

I think it was pretty nice of the devs to leave in the old leveling elements for people like you who are nostalgic about them. They could have just went "from now on all mobs give 1,000 experience points and all level caps are 5,000 exp. now Go find the zone with the best clustering of level 3 mobs that link and have 1 guy thundaga all the things!".

I still don't understand the desire to force people to play with you by removing what they like from the game though. I wish my friends liked FFXI, but I don't petition XBOX to remove all other games so that they have to play with me. In both scenarios, I imagine most people would choose to just not play with me regardless.

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Thank you for putting a little more into this post than usual. My biggest complaint has much more to do with the fact that all of this speed-grinding and its popularity might very well destroy the very thing I like about this type of game - which just happens to be my favorite genre. My biggest problem with that is, is I don't understand people who only want to play part of the game and the rest of us have had to sacrifice for it. Not that we've had to sacrifice everything, but our ability to enjoy ourselves as we once did has been crippled.

Of course the option is still there. Of course I can try as hard as I possibly can and shouting/yelling for as long as it takes to go out as a six-man party or whatever. Point is, I can no longer log in, do a /sea all XX-XX inv and know that every person with their flag up is looking for what I'm looking for. I now have to assume that people don't want that, and I should just go back to soloing and forget about it.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Thank you for putting a little more into this post than usual. My biggest complaint has much more to do with the fact that all of this speed-grinding and its popularity might very well destroy the very thing I like about this type of game - which just happens to be my favorite genre. My biggest problem with that is, is I don't understand people who only want to play part of the game and the rest of us have had to sacrifice for it. Not that we've had to sacrifice everything, but our ability to enjoy ourselves as we once did has been crippled.

Of course the option is still there. Of course I can try as hard as I possibly can and shouting/yelling for as long as it takes to go out as a six-man party or whatever. Point is, I can no longer log in, do a /sea all XX-XX inv and know that every person with their flag up is looking for what I'm looking for. I now have to assume that people don't want that, and I should just go back to soloing and forget about it.

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What you need to understand, is that a lot of those people you were finding when you did /sea, were just as unhappy as you are now.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Thanks for your suggestions. I'll try to employ them once I gain a few brain cells. Meantime I'll block you and talk to you at that time. Bye.

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Yeah please do that - grow them fast, since you obviously do not get it, and keep on trolling even if other posters tried to be as nice as possible and explain it to you like you were a 4 years old. Game changed, people changed, if you don't like it, hit the cancel and delete button, easy as a pie.

Hmm.... nevermind.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Point is, I can no longer log in, do a /sea all XX-XX inv and know that every person with their flag up is looking for what I'm looking for. I now have to assume that people don't want that, and I should just go back to soloing and forget about it.

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LOL - if I recall correctly in the old days you do exactly that and wait for hours for invite if you are not VIP jobs. This is why FoV was a huge success when it was created since people can solo while LFG and not waste their time sitting in Port Jeuno or Whitegate. XP party was a huge mess in the past and real inconvenience. Between travelling time, overcrowded camp, difficulty finding jobs xyz, it was just pure explosion of hot mess. As the game mature, you no longer have many new players, hence SE shift the grind to endgame now and give people options to speed level. Guess what muffin? 99% of the players took the bait and never look back.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

What you need to understand, is that a lot of those people you were finding when you did /sea, were just as unhappy as you are now.

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Then I have to ask, why did they choose to stick around? And before you ask me the same, I'm struggling with sticking around myself.

Eyeballed, you need to stop thread camping and go play the game you're arguing about.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Eyeballed, you need to stop thread camping and go play the game you're arguing about.

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I'm at work. And yes, I'm doing my job as well.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Then I have to ask, why did they choose to stick around? And before you ask me the same, I'm struggling with sticking around myself.

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Eventually they will relent, since 100% of all the fun can be found at endgame and SE pretty much shift the grinding phase to endgame as well. Magian trials is your new xp party grind. Most people hate this and would rather get others to speed up the process. Empyrean seal farm and Empyrean weapons are also the new grind, you need all the normal tank, healer, dd, nuker set up. Just accept it that the level grind is pretty much gone, and jump in to the new lvl 99 grind and you will be fine. Stop fussing over dead horse, and get with the program.

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Then I have to ask, why did they choose to stick around? And before you ask me the same, I'm struggling with sticking around myself.

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I won't say you shouldn't quit, but at least give the new max-level pre-endgame pug stuff a shot before you cash it in.* If that doesn't do it for you, seriously: Aion.




*I would warn you, though, that by playing RDM you're going to get a nice taste of all the old-school job favortism you're currently content to handwave~

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Then I have to ask, why did they choose to stick around? And before you ask me the same, I'm struggling with sticking around myself.

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Honestly, I played out of a desire to improve my character (and there wasn't a lot else going on at 4 in the morning). I felt very limited in what I could do on a low level character and it was infuriating that the amount of damage I did / took had very little to do with how I played. I really wanted to get to a high enough level that I could use real strategies beyond the one or two moves / spells I had at low levels and I wanted to fight something more interesting as well. It took me a really long time to finish my first job, because to be honest, it wasn't that fun leveling.

When I got to 75 and begun killing NMs so I could gear myself, and doing missions I was having some fun. Then I found out that I had to have X job leveled to get through X mission / bcnm / etc. and it was back to the grind for a little while, but I endured it because I had that carrot dangling that I really wanted. I leveled a few jobs, based on what events / missions I could get into with them. Not how fun they were to play. For example, I leveled red mage specifically because I could use it to solo NMs and get into events that dropped gear for thief.

I spent an enormous amount of time doing things that I did not enjoy so that I could get to do things that I liked.

In a nut shell, it started off as fun, turned into a focus for my OCD and now seems to dance back and forth between the two.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I spent an enormous amount of time doing things that I did not enjoy so that I could get to do things that I liked.

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Me too. I liked experience parties for a while. But the blandness of the same household-pet mobs and repetitive procedures hit hard fast. I finished one job more for the sense of completing what I started than continuing with something I enjoyed.

But that wouldn't have been enough. I justified the continued experience party blandness because it wasn't bad enough to knock out the parts of the game I liked. For example, I loved story missions and I needed to level to finish them.

More potently, this game offered a unique opportunity to interact with friends, family and coworkers in a Final Fantasy world. It wasn't so much a great MMO I cared about. It was reliving old times when I used to play the single player FF games with these people in my home and dorm room as a kid. After we all moved away from each other, I was elated that we could actually still enjoy a Final Fantasy world together via FFXI, hundreds of miles apart. The Final Fantasy part is important in terms of the nostalgiac mythos and imagery.

When the stories were done and my friends and family quit for other things, I no longer had a reason to endure the experience parties. I quit for several periods of several months, re-subing when new expansion stories were added, and when friends decided to give it a go again. Abyssea was the first time I actually enjoyed 100% of what I was playing. Now I'm in the same boat as Frank. There are a couple OCD things I just want to finish because I started them, and a few times when I hang with RL friends and family in game and just fool around.

There is one aspect of the old leveling grind I miss now that I think about it. In VW or Abyssea the progression is gear centered, and what that does for your character is only about numbers. There is some satisfaction about that. But it's not as enjoyable as progressing in abilities and job role. For example, building up on RDM, getting Convert, Refresh and Haste are a big deal when you've leveled so long without them. This kind of progression was better to me than just gear potency, on a single job.

But, here's the good part. Like everything else there is a replacement for that. Although current leveling shoots you through ability and thought-process progression on one job, it gives you the opportunity to grow your overall character across multiple jobs. So now instead of getting convert 40 levels in, I look forward to getting to 99, playing a while with all the skills one job has, then moving to the next stage for my character by moving on to another job. That has actually proved much more enjoyable to me.

I'd highly suggest trying that before you quit, Eyeballed. Gear, seal and +2 hunting with a couple friends at 99 can be a blast. With Abyssea and VW gear hunts, you can get some repetitive fights with tougher and cooler looking mobs in a party setting where everyone has to participate. Of course there are differences from old xp parties but much of what I liked about those at first is present in these fights, which to me are more fun and better designed. You can get your sense of old partying, just in the gear hunt across multiple jobs vs experience points with one job.

Honestly Merton, I came back to FFXI with the explicit purpose to relive some old memories and then leave again. I have no real intention of devoting any serious time to the game. I already knew when I left FFXIV what state the game was in, and as such had planned to solo everything. This, at least until 14 is overhauled and 2.0 launches, then I'll dabble in that again and see if it's worth my time. Doubting it.

I looked at Aion, and it looks pretty drab. Maybe I'll just /shutdown and go outside again, lol.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

I'd highly suggest trying that before you quit, Eyeballed. Gear, seal and +2 hunting with a couple friends at 99 can be a blast. With Abyssea and VW gear hunts, you can get some repetitive fights with tougher and cooler looking mobs in a party setting where everyone has to participate. Of course there are differences from old xp parties but much of what I liked about those at first is present in these fights, which to me are more fun and better designed. You can get your sense of old partying, just in the gear hunt across multiple jobs vs experience points with one job.

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You made some very good point that everyone here tried to suggest to Miss Donuts over there, but seems like that idea never cross her donut shaped hole inside her head. Maybe she should try to cut some sugar, and bake another cookie?

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

I said nothing about wanting it to be challenging. I can make it challenging all by myself soloing IT mobs. I said I wanted to experience the game at all levels with 5 other people, preferably.

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That just sounds insanely arbitrary. First of all, why five other people? Why not solo, why not in an alliance? Secondly, how is an EXP party "experiencing" the game? You don't see shit of the game in an EXP party. 30 capped Promyvions is experiencing the game. 40 capped Mammets fight is experiencing the game. 60 capped Airship fight is experiencing the game. Leveling is not, not at any level. If you think killing crabs over and over somehow means experiencing the game you have no idea what the game has to offer at all, even during mid-levels. Leveling does even less for your game experience than it does for your gameplay experience, which is already pretty much nothing.

Also, am I being retarded or did my post (the one you quoted) get deleted? I can't seem to find it anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcon

That just sounds insanely arbitrary. First of all, why five other people? Why not solo, why not in an alliance? Secondly, how is an EXP party "experiencing" the game? You don't see shit of the game in an EXP party. 30 capped Promyvions is experiencing the game. 40 capped Mammets fight is experiencing the game. 60 capped Airship fight is experiencing the game. Leveling is not, not at any level. If you think killing crabs over and over somehow means experiencing the game you have no idea what the game has to offer at all, even during mid-levels. Leveling does even less for your game experience than it does for your gameplay experience, which is already pretty much nothing.

Also, am I being retarded or did my post (the one you quoted) get deleted? I can't seem to find it anymore.

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A few of mine came up missing recently. I suspect ninja forum modding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

A few of mine came up missing recently. I suspect ninja forum modding.

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At first I suspected that, but look at it (it's still in his quote), there's nothing that seems even remotely insulting in there. Can't really see why it would have been deleted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcon

At first I suspected that, but look at it (it's still in his quote), there's nothing that seems even remotely insulting in there. Can't really see why it would have been deleted.

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I got a 12 hour ban from this forum for saying "I'm not sure what your trying to say, but I think it was meant to be an insult. It actually just came out as sounding silly though."

... you never know what the reasoning may be on here. I'd prefer they just delete to doing a temp ban for something lame though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcon

That just sounds insanely arbitrary. First of all, why five other people? Why not solo, why not in an alliance? Secondly, how is an EXP party "experiencing" the game? You don't see shit of the game in an EXP party. 30 capped Promyvions is experiencing the game. 40 capped Mammets fight is experiencing the game. 60 capped Airship fight is experiencing the game. Leveling is not, not at any level. If you think killing crabs over and over somehow means experiencing the game you have no idea what the game has to offer at all, even during mid-levels. Leveling does even less for your game experience than it does for your gameplay experience, which is already pretty much nothing.

Also, am I being retarded or did my post (the one you quoted) get deleted? I can't seem to find it anymore.

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So Arcon, would you say that we should simply start the game at cap? Being that myself, and an untold number of others, apparently don't know what we're talking about? Or, is that simply you 6-7 (or even 50, considering the Likes on page 1), and the lot in this particular thread just don't seem to understand, at all? You say there's nothing to be found in killing a crab over and over with 5 other people, and I disagree, for one. I say there's nothing to be found burning up your levels (AFK or no) in Gusgen/CN for the first 60 levels in the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

So Arcon, would you say that we should simply start the game at cap?

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I already said I would not mind that one bit. I don't care for EXPing at all. If I'd start the game at 99 I'd still play it. Get this: I already have all my jobs leveled. I don't need any EXP, ever again. Yet I'm still playing. Is that not enough to convince you that I don't care for EXPing?

But no, that's not what I'm suggesting. I say leave it as it is. That way the people who want to leech can do that, the people who don't, don't have to. Only the masochists like you are being left out because they can't find five like-minded masochists to party with. Instead you think it would be an appropriate solution to make the entire rest of the community suffer just so you can indulge in your masochistic desires.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Being that myself, and an untold number of others, apparently don't know what we're talking about? Or, is that simply you 6-7 (or even 50, considering the Likes on page 1), and the lot in this particular thread just don't seem to understand, at all?

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We do understand what you want. We also understand your arguments. But you don't seem to understand that they're all subjective. We don't want a game like that. I play to play, not to work. EXPing has always felt like work to me. Something repetitive, tiresome and boring. You may spin it whichever way you want ("being able to play the job is a reward for the tedious leveling" has a nice ring to it), but it's still not convincing to me, and I'm guessing to at least some other people as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

You say there's nothing to be found in killing a crab over and over with 5 other people, and I disagree, for one. I say there's nothing to be found burning up your levels (AFK or no) in Gusgen/CN for the first 60 levels in the game.

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I don't disagree. I'm not saying leeching is a vital life experience or that you learn some valuable lessons while doing so. But neither is regular EXPing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I already said I would not mind that one bit. I'm not saying leeching is a vital life experience or that you learn some valuable lessons while doing so. But neither is regular EXPing.

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This is really all you had to say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

This is really all you had to say.

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Actually he had alot more than that to say, and said it, you just didn't quote it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Actually he had alot more than that to say, and said it, you just didn't quote it.

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Because it was inflammatory, and that in itself is unnecessary. Learn to talk with respect, and I might actually acknowledge you even said anything.

And at the most, it was all he needed to say for me to understand his side. Is there any point to talking further?