Reasons Why FFXI is Declining

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Never had a problem with the grind, but more of getting into groups so could make progress outside of farming up some gil or a NM item. Now, Level Sync was a good idea to alleviate the time looking for XP parties and so if one person leveled it didn't kill a whole party in off hours. Too bad it ended up more being used so groups could stay in one camp way longer than they should of. Anyone else remember East Ronfaure (S) level syncs for Colibri? Now with GoV burns and abyssea being the main ways to get XP, takes a lot of what was enjoyable out of the xp grind. Granted it is nice having that speed up as much as it is now, but that also takes out a lot of the fun of the journey along the way. How many remember their first trip to Jeuno, unescorted at 20? Or doing any missions before quite a few of them were made easy mode? Or any number of crazy things from trying to solo prime avatars to having Guivre sneak up on your XP party and plotting to get revenge later? Which makes me wonder, what things does a new player have to do that will leave lasting memories for them? Because those kind of things are what help get and keep a new player interested in playing.

With most if not all new content being aimed at old players, it really is no wonder that XI is loosing more players than it is gaining. Which makes me wonder how long till FFXI gets an expansion like WoW's Cataclysm to try and reinvigorate things for newer players, and give some new experiences to older players. As the new players need engaging content at all levels instead of just endgame. Which is why CoP is still my favorite expansion of FFXI, because even though some parts were very hard, it had events for most levels to participate in, compared to most of the others which have been primarily aimed at near end game leveled and geared players.

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Well said. People are looking through the eyes of a vet and not a new player. CoP was one of the few expansions that had content for just about every level above 30. SE could learn from this and not just add end game content next time but some new content and perks for lower level (newer players). This point becomes moot however when you can get to level 99 in 3 days sitting naked.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

Well said. People are looking through the eyes of a vet and not a new player. CoP was one of the few expansions that had content for just about every level above 30. SE could learn from this and not just add end game content next time but some new content and perks for lower level (newer players). This point becomes moot however when you can get to level 99 in 3 days sitting naked.

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With how easy it is to reach 99 it is not a smart business move to make content for a level that only A FEW people will benefit from. They need to make 99 content for all people not just end game Linkshells. That way once these new players hit 99 they will have something to look forward to and not be excluded from. Also abyssea should get some 99 upgrades that draw people back in there so new players can get some af3. Sum it up? Low level content? Pointless, end game content playable by all? Yes please.

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Originally Posted by Creole

With how easy it is to reach 99 it is not a smart business move to make content for a level that only A FEW people will benefit from. They need to make 99 content for all people not just end game Linkshells. That way once these new players hit 99 they will have something to look forward to and not be excluded from. Also abyssea should get some 99 upgrades that draw people back in there so new players can get some af3. Sum it up? Low level content? Pointless, end game content playable by all? Yes please.

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Please read my post before this one before replying. It sums it up the entire reason why "speed leveling" people to 99 is a bad idea. Otherwise... you are taking my quote out of its context.

Too many posters are getting cancer. It's killing off the player-base.

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Originally Posted by Plasticleg

Too many posters are getting cancer. It's killing off the player-base.

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NOT FOR LONG

Jaykay but really hope that this goes somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

A bunch of misconceptions and stuff

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All wrong. Slow grind exp parties were one of the worst things about this game. They don't teach people anything that they couldn't learn after capping their levels. Actually, a lot of what people do learn in parties is the wrong thing to do / expect once they hit level cap. They are a huge deterrent to new players. The idea that people have to level that way to learn their jobs is a complete lie.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

Please read my post before this one before replying. It sums it up the entire reason why "speed leveling" people to 99 is a bad idea. Otherwise... you are taking my quote out of its context.

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No, he was spot on. Everything you said was wrong.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

Well said. People are looking through the eyes of a vet and not a new player. CoP was one of the few expansions that had content for just about every level above 30. SE could learn from this and not just add end game content next time but some new content and perks for lower level (newer players). This point becomes moot however when you can get to level 99 in 3 days sitting naked.

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Indeed it does become moot when can hit 99 in 3 days, but often times for someone to be able to do that, they are either are a vet leveling a job or a mule, so know how to do it fast and likely have help from friends or LS members, or they have a vet that introduced them to the game helping them. Brand new players often don't have those resources to make the jump to 99 in 3 days, not to mention Limit breaks and lack of easy travel methods slowing them down.

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Originally Posted by Creole

With how easy it is to reach 99 it is not a smart business move to make content for a level that only A FEW people will benefit from. They need to make 99 content for all people not just end game Linkshells. That way once these new players hit 99 they will have something to look forward to and not be excluded from. Also abyssea should get some 99 upgrades that draw people back in there so new players can get some af3. Sum it up? Low level content? Pointless, end game content playable by all? Yes please.

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It is equally not a smart business move to rely on your new players having to have veteran assistance to be able to enjoy the game early on, when most decide if they will keep playing or not. The key is not designing content for either new or old players, but for all players. If you only keep designing new end game content regardless of how accessible it is, it does nothing to ensure new players reach said endgame content.

Something that would work well for an expansion that would appeal to both new and old players, would be an expansion with a couple new jobs introduced, maybe even basic jobs instead of advanced, with an engaging story line and rewards that improve with level that are also tied to the story. Say for example something like Rajas ring, but the level cap for its improvements are tied to how far in the story you have progressed. Using Rajas and CoP mile stones as an example. Say lv 30 Rajas after beat the first 3 promys, lv 40 after Ouryu, lv 50 after Vazhl, and lv 65 upon gaining Sea access, and level 75 when completed. Keeping the variable stats and level 30 equip requirment for all stages, but having an initial reward being available early on instead of only at the very end.

Or even taking stuff introduced in SoA for end game, but also having some smaller and lower level ones scattered around elsewhere that newer players could do to start earning bayld and plasm without having to be rushed up to 99 to participate.

The overall point is, new players need more than just leveling to do in that crucial newbie stage where they decide if they want to keep playing or not. As remember they only get 30 RL days of free play time, not 30 days of actual playtime, so depending on their schedules and other commitments, you could be looking at less than 3 days of play time to actually hook them.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

I'm not new to MMOs or MMORPGs, I have seen them die over and over again due to many similar problems. I used to play Ultima Online back in the day and even Zork on the school's mainframe when I was young. I can still play these games and find them fun. The Nostigla goggles argument while valid sometimes... is often times a poor excuse to describe something that "worked" long ago and people enjoyed. Just because technology has changed do I enjoy a text based game any less? Not I. I still enjoy them. I still take out my CDs of Planescape Torment and play them with the very much the same joy now then I did 10+ years ago.

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I still got my old copies of Baldur's Gate 1&2 & planescape torment too lol, and play them. And Attic Attack on spectrum 48k although it doesnt load very well now (it never did!) Your point on old games is excellant, the truth is that if a game is a great game it becomes a classic, it will never stop being a classic, even if newer games have better graphics or w/e. Ffxi is undoubtably a classic game, it will never stop being a classic game, it just gets superseded in the mainstream by newer eyecandy lolgames like 14.
I agree totally with you, Aby should have been lvl 75+ from the start, people under 75 should xp in the old areas, and I don't just mean Gusgen/CN. Me and my friend still lvl in Aydeewa Subterrane in 2013, at the appropriate level. Its a beautiful area and of course now it is empty all the time. Xping in level appropriate areas got people to explore Vanadiel and enjoy the scenery and learn about where everything is. The desert for beetles on the rock, QC spiders, MZ trolls etc.. Troll xp parties were awesome because trolls are one of the best designed mobs to look at, and I used to actually look forward to xping (imagine that!) when we were doing trolls up on the battlements.
SE got it right when they added high lvl GOV mobs to old areas last year~, they should hold that thought and try to keep the old areas relevant to ppl. When SoA was announced I was hoping it would be like Wotg with mobs you can kill at lvl 20 like the saplings outside Bastokmarkets[s], all the way up to enemy generals storming the Allied held areas with troops. Imo both Toau and Wotg were masterpieces, they had a lot of depth, atmosphere and storyline and made you feel involved in the ongoing battlefields as an individual rpg character. Its actually quite heartbreaking to see Campaign npc heroes with their individual trademark /saymode but nobody is there to hear it, coz theyre all in leechburn pts looking at the walls.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

It is equally not a smart business move to rely on your new players having to have veteran assistance to be able to enjoy the game early on, when most decide if they will keep playing or not. The key is not designing content for either new or old players, but for all players. If you only keep designing new end game content regardless of how accessible it is, it does nothing to ensure new players reach said endgame content.

Something that would work well for an expansion that would appeal to both new and old players, would be an expansion with a couple new jobs introduced, maybe even basic jobs instead of advanced, with an engaging story line and rewards that improve with level that are also tied to the story. Say for example something like Rajas ring, but the level cap for its improvements are tied to how far in the story you have progressed. Using Rajas and CoP mile stones as an example. Say lv 30 Rajas after beat the first 3 promys, lv 40 after Ouryu, lv 50 after Vazhl, and lv 65 upon gaining Sea access, and level 75 when completed. Keeping the variable stats and level 30 equip requirment for all stages, but having an initial reward being available early on instead of only at the very end.

Or even taking stuff introduced in SoA for end game, but also having some smaller and lower level ones scattered around elsewhere that newer players could do to start earning bayld and plasm without having to be rushed up to 99 to participate.

The overall point is, new players need more than just leveling to do in that crucial newbie stage where they decide if they want to keep playing or not. As remember they only get 30 RL days of free play time, not 30 days of actual playtime, so depending on their schedules and other commitments, you could be looking at less than 3 days of play time to actually hook them.

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Agreed. Another thing that puzzled me in FFXI is lack of experience points for completing quests. If you want to immerse new players in the storyline in FFXI, non repeatable quests can go a long way. The problem is the existing player base tends to (when new players ask for help) tell them to just leech their way to 99 to solve most of their woes. This leech form of leveling is a form of an exploit on the parts of the game... be they Fell Cleave or Abby early access. If SE INTENDS to have a working leveling system, they need to fix the exploits in them. If SE has no wish for a FUNCTIONING level based system, they need to abandon it. There is no need to sit on the fence about it. It just makes the game look broken to new players. Currently the rate of exp gained is fine outside of the 2 before mentioned exploits but I am sure some players can name a few others as well. These are the most common however.

EXP for quest completion would be nicer then getting say... an outdated Linen Robe as a reward. It would help speed up the leveling process but not by huge amounts.

Regarding your comment about new players not knowing how to get to level 99 in a few days... Most catch on pretty quick because they begin to ask around. Questions like this arise:

"Where is everyone?"
"Why is this area so empty? Do people go elsewhere to level?"
"Why am I leveling so slow and my friend is already 30 levels above me?"

When asked that in a shout, most players either tend to tell the player how to exploit level (step by step) or they point them to a wiki which explains the same thing. So yes, new players do know how to level that fast, they just don't learn what to do with the skills they have acquired until later in endgame (where it matters most). At that point it is sink or swim for the newbee. They either can't grasp the learning curve (or don't want to invest the time in doing so) then quit.

As for casual players, the ride for them sort of ends at end game.... since they have advanced there so fast, they feel that they have run out of casual things to do. Everything seems so serious and even if they wish to do a casual event, they can't find anyone interested in them because the rewards for them are so worthless.

SE needs to take a step back and retool their existing content for newer players. I am by no means saying that there should be LESS endgame content but I am saying that there is a great need for worthwhile newbee content. One that teaches them how to play the game, not how to leech from it.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Stuff, conjecture. I like Pie. I use the word "slow grind" in every post. Everything you said was wrong.

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Really? Every single word? Every single letter of every single word? To make such a statement defies the logic of ceiling cat. As such, -1 internet for you.

In the words of no no no cat... NO NO NO!

Also... if slow grinding is slow, and by contrast you are implying that means you like fast grinding, but fast grinding is still grinding is it not? Fast and Slow are extremes. The speed to me is not so much the issue as the quality and skill used to level. Exploit leveling just warps the system into something it was not designed to be. I don't like the rate of exp gain when Tanaka was around but I like the current speed. I don't like the lazy exploits however because well... SE might as well place a button on the screen that says "Press to be level 99 now".

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Originally Posted by Plasticleg

Too many posters are getting cancer. It's killing off the player-base.

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Is cancer killing the posters? Or are the posters causing cancer? If so, they must be giving each other cancer. I'd recommend a quarantine on =10. Next patient!