Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Daggers are getting a lot better in my eyes. I mean, i went and checked the DPS of the new Dagger and the DPS of the other R/EX Weapons and it was among the top of them... Which is what I like to see, the idea of a dagger is low DMG but superior DPS, if you have low DMG and second place DPS, then the weapon is just a failed choice...

I'm all for Daggers being boosted but, I think where they are now (2nd, maybe 3rd in overall DPS value) is a good spot. (By overall DPS i don't mean parses/etc, I mean the actual DPS Value of said weapon)

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Yeah the DPS is nice, but considering THF is attack-starved to begin with and has the same base STR as WHM you aren't going to put out anywhere near the numbers you think you are.

As for RNG delay, a 99 relic RNG with that bullet gets 100tp in what, 5 or 6 shots with a weapon with a base dmg of 221. Meanwhile I get to swing about 20 times with a 55 dmg weapon and then do an attack-starved, AGI modded ws.

They used to be able to hold Steal and Treasure Hunter over our heads and say that we don't need damage because we have those but they obsoleted that ability and trait. I'm not asking to be a top DD, I'm just asking them to close the gap a little bit between dual-wielders and 2-handers.

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Originally Posted by Kajikuro

This really isnt complicated, if there are 10 trials and you do 9 you are not finished with the trials

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Ah! Now we're getting somewhere with you! A little glimmer of intelligence begins to shine forth. This is true. If you do 9/10 trials, you are not finished with the trials.

But that does not make the reward from trial 9 an incomplete reward.

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Originally Posted by Kajikuro

If you need a metaphor here. Say there is a 4776 question quiz, however you figure out that you can finish the first 1776 questions and still pass. You may have completed the 1776 first questions and you may have pass the test, but you STILL HAVE NOT COMPLETED THE TEST.

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Opinion. Having all 4776 answers bubbled in may constitute completion to you, but completing the test to me simply means answering what you choose to answer and handing it in.

By your definition, if a trial asked for 100 of an item, but you can finish it by turning in 50, is the trial not complete because you decided not to turn in those 50 items that weren't really required?

Also, let's look at something here:

com·plete
/kəmˈplēt/
Adjective
Having all the necessary or appropriate parts.

Verb
Finish making or doing.

When I finish trial 99, I have finished making a 99 weapon. It has all the necessary and appropriate parts. Therefore, a 99 weapon is a finished product as well. In fact, The level 75(Relic/Mythic) 85, 90 and 95 (RME) weapons are also finished products. They deal damage, they have stat boosts and they have the weaponskill specific to the weapon.

Now, I'm not saying 75-95 RME should get the stat boost. I agree that the weapon must be at least 99, only because no 75-95 weapon should be on par with any other 99 weapon. But the 99 without afterglow is a completed and finished weapon, the afterflow being merely a tac'd on bonus.

It's akin to buying a car. It's a finished product and performs its role just fine. If you choose to add turbochargers, paint jobs, spinning rims, a new suspension kit and fuzzy dice in the mirror, those are good upgrades, but does not detract from the fact that the stock vehicle is indeed finished.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Ah! Now we're getting somewhere with you! A little glimmer of intelligence begins to shine forth. This is true. If you do 9/10 trials, you are not finished with the trials.

But that does not make the reward from trial 9 an incomplete reward.



Opinion. Having all 4776 answers bubbled in may constitute completion to you, but completing the test to me simply means answering what you choose to answer and handing it in.

By your definition, if a trial asked for 100 of an item, but you can finish it by turning in 50, is the trial not complete because you decided not to turn in those 50 items that weren't really required?

Also, let's look at something here:

com·plete
/kəmˈplēt/
Adjective
Having all the necessary or appropriate parts.

Verb
Finish making or doing.

When I finish trial 99, I have finished making a 99 weapon. It has all the necessary and appropriate parts. Therefore, a 99 weapon is a finished product as well. In fact, The level 75(Relic/Mythic) 85, 90 and 95 (RME) weapons are also finished products. They deal damage, they have stat boosts and they have the weaponskill specific to the weapon.

Now, I'm not saying 75-95 RME should get the stat boost. I agree that the weapon must be at least 99, only because no 75-95 weapon should be on par with any other 99 weapon. But the 99 without afterglow is a completed and finished weapon, the afterflow being merely a tac'd on bonus.

It's akin to buying a car. It's a finished product and performs its role just fine. If you choose to add turbochargers, paint jobs, spinning rims, a new suspension kit and fuzzy dice in the mirror, those are good upgrades, but does not detract from the fact that the stock vehicle is indeed finished.

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By your definition and your car metaphor that feeds my original point, 85 weapons are completed, they perform all the functions of the "fully working car" but doesn't have the turbo charger so on and so forth, so by your very example and request 85 weapons should get the upgrade because "It's a finished product and performs its role just fine." DIRECT QUOTE

As far as your 99 weapon and your deserving of the increase while condemning everyone else who you say are also finished, go and ask a 99 afterglow person how Completely finished and deserving of the same they deserve.

You cant say 85 isnt finished without saying 99 isnt finished because as you say they are both finished products and perform the role just fine however if you say 99 is finished then by proxy 85 is also finished and equally deserving of a damage increase.

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Originally Posted by Kajikuro

By your definition and your car metaphor that feeds my original point, 85 weapons are completed, they perform all the functions of the "fully working car" but doesn't have the turbo charger so on and so forth, so by your very example and request 85 weapons should get the upgrade because "It's a finished product and performs its role just fine." DIRECT QUOTE

As far as your 99 weapon and your deserving of the increase while condemning everyone else who you say are also finished, go and ask a 99 afterglow person how Completely finished and deserving of the same they deserve.

You cant say 85 isnt finished without saying 99 isnt finished because as you say they are both finished products and perform the role just fine however if you say 99 is finished then by proxy 85 is also finished and equally deserving of a damage increase.

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Your entire post if fallacious, as a 85-95 weapon is not a 99 weapon. An 85-95 RME should not be comparable to a normal 99 weapon at any point, regardless of its status as a complete weapon.

There is no level difference between a 99 and a 99 with afterglow, therefore it is acceptable for a 99 without afterglow to be comparable to a normal 99 weapon while it is unacceptable for an 85-95 weapon to be comparable to the same.

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Originally Posted by Kajikuro

As far as your 99 weapon and your deserving of the increase while condemning everyone else who you say are also finished, go and ask a 99 afterglow person how Completely finished and deserving of the same they deserve.

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Not once did I claim to have a 99 weapon, nor the right to have mine increased while condemning others. I have an 85 Almace and a 90 Ochain. I am speaking from the position of the man on the bottom rung, and I STILL believe that only 99 (without/without afterglow) is acceptable. I do not expect my 85 Almace to get a stat boost to make it superior in damage, because there already exist trials for that. The difference between the 99 and 99 with afterglow is non existent.

Also, I highly doubt that the majority of players with afterglow feel they are more entitled to the upgrade than any other non-afterglow 99 holder.

I might take it as far as to say that the level 75 relic and mythic weapons are finished. Everything past that I see as upgrades.

The empyrean weapons are obviously different in that they were not created during the level 75 era. I'm quite indecisive about when I think they're complete. I want to say it's when you get the actual weapon, its name and its form, but I also want to say it's when you get the weapon skill. Anything past that are definitely upgrades.

Afterglow, however, I don't even consider to be an upgrade. More like an insult to what other things the items/money could be used for! Not insulting those who have completed that trial; I only hope those people feel good about going fer it. ^^;

Yeah... most probably wont agree with me too much here, but that's fine, and to be expected! I wouldn't be shoving my opinion upon others, I just wanted to say that I agree on that the Afterglow-trial is not needed to have a finished product.

As for the damage boost, I wouldn't mind if they adjusted the lower level versions. I might even think that the 'super weapons' should be better than some of the higher level not—so—super weapons even (mainly thinking of Trial of the Magians weapons here), but they already mentioned they're going for the 99 versions only (afterglow doesn't matter, and yeah, not like they haven't gone back changing their plans before, right), and I have no problem with that even though I have only ever made one level 99 weapon (Mandau) and that was for a friend even.

I might get my empyreans to 99 when I can solo Voidwatch. >:D

I dunno, I kinda think they need to make it scale from 75/80. I don't think a guy who has a 95 relic and 4 umbril marrows should do 100 less damage per swing than a guy with a 99 relic.

Somehow I think that they had planned to release the equipment much more slowly so that everyone had an opportunity to catch up, but the bad reactions to the expansion forced them to speed up the release cycle. Now there is a huge gap between gear levels.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I dunno, I kinda think they need to make it scale from 75/80. I don't think a guy who has a 95 relic and 4 umbril marrows should do 100 less damage per swing than a guy with a 99 relic.

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I actually agree and rate up pretty much all of your posts on this subject, this, I'm a little "no" on.

Personally, I think it should. I'm not getting a Delve weapon because I'm 29k/30k, Just not how it works. They want to buff the 99 Versions because buffing the 90 or 95 will just make it more of the same problem. They want people who worked the stupidity of 99's to be able to use them, not that 90/95 Emps are still > Every non-RME.

And essentially, what they're doing is making the 99Relics go up the gear ladder like the rest of gear/weapons which are level "100, 110, and 120" or such, so they're making 99 Relics "Level 110" or so, which i think is a good idea. Saddly that means if they release level 130/140/150 weapons later, we might just be back at the same problem... but its whatevs TBH, I think It'll be easier for me to let my Mandau die now that I've given up on THF Entirely... since TH is useless, Despoil/Steal don't work on new mobs, Nothing's dropped gil since WoTG so Mug/Gilfinder are more useless... Just a dead job, and I'm liking PUP and MNK more cause i got the shiny Delve h2h :3

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I'm liking PUP and MNK more cause i got the shiny Delve h2h :3

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Rated up for this part :3

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Originally Posted by Kihrre

So will you, in the future, add a way in the game to differentiate between lv.99 equipment which are of different content levels, such as a visual cue like the borders for HQ items or even display the content level in the description?

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We've received similar feedback outside of the forum as well and are currently working on making it possible to implement this.

Once we are at the stage where we can show you a sample, we'll be sure to post an image!

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I actually agree and rate up pretty much all of your posts on this subject, this, I'm a little "no" on.

Personally, I think it should. I'm not getting a Delve weapon because I'm 29k/30k, Just not how it works. They want to buff the 99 Versions because buffing the 90 or 95 will just make it more of the same problem. They want people who worked the stupidity of 99's to be able to use them, not that 90/95 Emps are still > Every non-RME.

And essentially, what they're doing is making the 99Relics go up the gear ladder like the rest of gear/weapons which are level "100, 110, and 120" or such, so they're making 99 Relics "Level 110" or so, which i think is a good idea. Saddly that means if they release level 130/140/150 weapons later, we might just be back at the same problem... but its whatevs TBH, I think It'll be easier for me to let my Mandau die now that I've given up on THF Entirely... since TH is useless, Despoil/Steal don't work on new mobs, Nothing's dropped gil since WoTG so Mug/Gilfinder are more useless... Just a dead job, and I'm liking PUP and MNK more cause i got the shiny Delve h2h :3

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I guess I see what you mean. I just hate the idea of such a huge performance gap on anything.

On a related note, I have all the currency to build a Mandau now, but I'm on the fence about doing it because I'm not sure if they will ever upgrade these weapons again. I may just bazaar it all and spend the gil on something else (not sure what to buy now that these weapons have an uncertain future). I really wanted a shiny gold knife or some spharai for my monk though.

/sigh