Only places my RDM doesn't go is to things I absolutely need that people wont accept my RDM, such as Aello shouts. I normally end up on PLD for them, now if it were Qilin, I can do without Qilin, so I tell people either I come RDM, or I don't come. My ls knows I do everything on RDM better than most people in my ls do on any job so they don't really care either way. Thats just me at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooj
New Red Mage Spells
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08-08-2012, 01:07 PMDemon6324236
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08-08-2012, 03:47 PMManaKing
Any place I can't. Then I take BST and still have a good time.
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08-08-2012, 10:09 PMLyberty
The problem I see is that BLU and SCH are SE's new babies and RDM is the older son that is already all grown up and for that it doesnt get presents anymore... Come on guys... RDM is super outdated and deserve better than what you guys are giving to it. I dont even play RDM anymore because in all seriousness we havent gotten a cookie for ages and Im not happy about it at all... Hey devs, I got it, you dont like RDM... Its fine just kill it already and stop the torture.
/retires RDM. -
08-09-2012, 04:51 AMManaKing
RDM could get a couple of enhancing spells and maybe an enfeebling spells. That's about it. We'd be better off asking for job traits and abilities.
RDM is a 2nd rate Healer and Nuker, not in potency, but in spell selection and it always has been, so getting new heals or nukes isn't going to happen, unless it's something like Impact, which most RDMs don't have anyways.
Divine has always been a joke and Dark Magic is a side note for Bio 3, which has done little but earn us the disdain of the general community.
Enfeebling would be nice, but everything we ever get is either benign or castrated as soon as it is found to be effective. Dia 3 is our only good enfeeble because it can't be resisted. Everything else is subject to the whims of rules that make absolutely no logical sense. Gravity 2 has landed on absolutely nothing worth landing it on ever and it was designed that way.
Merit 2s are as bad as BLM's merit 2s in that they don't matter. They reduce white damage. Too bad the general community doesn't care about white damage and the reason for that is because SE never made them. They will make NMs that will TP your face off and kill all your friends too, but a NM that has substantial white damage does not exist.
If you remember when you could pull hate with Blind because it actually generated more hate than general DDing, then you remember what enfeebling used to work like. Also blind was worth casting because mobs could miss. I used to really like enfeebling, but it's a train wreck that isn't worth crying over because the game moved past the need for it.
I still play RDM because I enjoy enhancing magic. Enhancing magic, much like Dia 3, can't be resisted. SE is also mildly more generous with our enhancing because our combat and magic skills are generally sub par. I don't care if it takes me 2 minutes to buff every time i get to a zone. I turn into a strange hybrid that doesn't die easily and puts out decent numbers. With good gear you can even do good numbers.
Brave and Faith are both really good idea of how to let RDM switch 'stances', but honestly I don't think you should be switching stances. The point of RDM is that it has semi gimped skills because you can use them when you want. You don't intentionally start off worse than others so that you can specialize to be effective. Specialization is something you are good at and get better at to be effective. What we need is synergy.
Examples of Synergy:
We need Enfire III that deal twice as much damage as Enfire I. It needs to lower the magic evasion of fire for the mob we hit with it, and it needs to raise our affinity to fire by a reasonable (read this as balanced) amount so that we can nuke harder against them. It needs / to be lower priority than useful additional affects like the ones from Excalibur and Ephemeron. They need to apply to all hits so we actually get a damage increase that can keep us closer to the majority of players that want to hit things with weapons.
Occult Accumen would make it so we could nuke while not slowing down our TP gain. We wouldn't have to sacrifice damage for other kinds of damage. It's funny that DRK, which won't nuke, and BLM/SCH which won't WS for the most part get OA, but RDM does not. We are suited for it. We are a jack of all trades. We steal things from other jobs that mix magic and melee. We should be on this.
Spontaneity Upgrade. It would be nice if we could use Spontaneity to create level 2 SC properties. Example. Cast Water 4 on a mob, follow it up with Blizzard 4 via Spontaneity. You create, Distortion. From here you have 2 options. Magic Burst OR you can Requiescat and create Dark SC. Magic Burst off this as well. The reason why we should get this is because RDM can use every type of level 2 SC property if they are equipped with an Excalibur. Our versatility is something we should be able to take advantage of.
Do things like this and at least we will get looked at as something other than a silly job that is outdated. -
08-10-2012, 01:44 AMKieronWhy does it seem like the Rdm community wants Rdm to be a god at everything a second time around? It shouldn't even be close to Blu at melee yet Rdm can hit a 36% DA/2% TA rate along with enspells. Enfeebles are better; healing is better; enhancing is better; nuking is better compared to Blu and to top that off, everything is done at a fraction of a second with fast cast. Rdm is essentially a brick wall when it come to damage mitigation (See: Ryuotas abyssea buff-less Azdaja solo). That's a pretty nice feat. for an advertised "hybrid mage."Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyberty
I understand wanting a job to have more but to claim "Blu is SE's baby and Rdm is the forgotten stepchild" is a bit too farfetched. Blu still has issues with physical spells being worth a damn on high level monsters. Some spell's still don't function properly and the Blue magic attack formula is piss poor.
Now Drk, War, Sam and Whm... have fun debating on who's the favorite child here. -
08-10-2012, 02:25 AMNeisan_Quetz
Um Idk what version of XI you're playing, but it's not the version of XI most other people are playing.
If people wanted damage mitigation we wouldn't have Pld's complaining about how useless the job feels.
Not sure why you brought up blu's physicals spells being a problem on higher monsters when Rdm has a problem with everything on higher monsters. -
08-10-2012, 03:03 AMKieronThe physical spells bit was used as an example for player's who claim as if Blu is leagues above Rdm and that Blu has been given the limelight by SE. Neither have been given proper attention and that's only talking about Blu and Rdm. Other job's have been left in the gutter as well. Right now Blu is often used as a proc job and that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz
Any job that's not War, Sam, Drk or Whm (I suppose Sch now as well) have a problem with everything on higher monsters.
They're weaker and not wanted. Enfeebles don't matter anymore besides Dia III and that's not even needed; Enhancing has one name: Embrava; Healing is covered by Whm's superior curing.
Due to the way the game has shifted, you're better of either quitting Rdm and going for something else (or stop supporting these developers?). Things change and Rdm isn't the only one with such issues. -
08-10-2012, 03:23 AMDemon6324236Now you say all this but it goes back to a simple fact, RDM gets little use in endgame outside of Chainspell Stun at this point. All of the things you say it has going for it can either be ripped apart by endgame NMs, or it is to weak/limited to be deemed of use. Going piece by piece for instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieron
Enfeebles are better: Enfeebling in endgame is currently useless, everything either dies to fast for enfeebling to be of use or... yeah, thats about all, even if it wasn't the case immunity would still bring things to a grinding halt for enfeebling.
Healing is better: SCH & WHM rule the healing world, you would almost never bring a RDM to do this because of this fact.
Enhancing is better: Many mobs remove many buffs, or absorbs many buffs, from the player. At the same time, this is an extra 40 seconds to buff up between fights and lasts a max of roughly 13 minutes long.
Nuking is better: SCH & BLM rule the nuking world, you never ask a RDM to nuke, not even for procs. RDM nukes are weak, missing T5, and misses alot of procs that other jobs have, in endgame there is no reason to have a RDM in a nuking position.
Rdm is essentially a brick wall when it come to damage mitigation: This only goes so far, it depends how high the base damage is. If a mob hits you normally for 100 damage, you can take that down to a small number of about 10 with the use of a -50% PDT set & a high enough Enhancing Magic Phalanx. If a mob is hitting for 400s like alot of endgame mobs do with standard attacks, you have a -50% PDT set which puts it at 200, then Phalanx leaving it at 160ish. RDM can mitigate damage like a pro so long as the original number is roughly 100 or less, every bit it goes up past that hurts more and more because Phalanx becomes less and less powerful against it.
RDM DDing: This is looked down upon by many, the idea of a mage DDing seems impossible. In most endgame the idea is not even considered let alone put into practice, and there are various reasons why. In every event you need DDs, but many are time restricting, this time restriction is something that instantly works against RDM. RDM is a slow job to kill or be killed in many cases, if you are set to DD however, you still have to buff. Events like Nyzul can not be worked with so well because of this, you end up standing around casting spells for the 1st 40 seconds, and halfway through the run as well, so its a fail on your part. In VW, many people hate when people do not empty the box, let alone watch a mage buff themselves alone for 40 seconds. ADL & Legion a RDM is expected to CSS, not DD. These are only some examples, but all are true and accurate, and reasons why RDM is left.
The reason why people want more for RDM is because we do not want to be BST, BST is left out of endgame, or very rarely put into it. Just like BST, RDM is a god in lower level content, and can do a ton solo that others can not. The problem is that not all RDMs want to solo only, they want to do endgame as well, and this is where RDM completely loses its grip.
Ideas such as Faith, and Brave, are ideas to open 1 of the 2 fields up to RDM, nuking, and meleeing, so that when needed a RDM can perform these roles correctly and well, so that RDMs can be allowed to partake in endgame without much trouble and adapt to a role of choice for the situation. -
08-10-2012, 04:12 AMKieron
@ Demon -- See above post. I'll re-iterate some of what I said.
Nuking: Nuking is only for BLM and SCH due to power, you are correct. There is no need for a Rdm there.
Enfeebling: What enfeeble do you actually need in order to win? Literally none of them are needed to win a fight in current end game (sans knowledge of Legion as I haven't had any experience with it.)
Healing: Rdm main healing back in the day was used because of their ability to conserve and manage mp. Convert along with Refresh was all you really needed to work a merit party at the wajoam camps. Mp management is no longer the huge issue it used to be for other mage jobs. Whm's can have a Refresh Idle set and sub Rdm for refresh and convert. This effectively cancels out the need for the Rdm once favored ability to manage mp the best.
Enhancing: Embrava. That's it. The fact that temper couldn't be cast on other's was already a slap in the face. That said, I'd still be one to say temper wouldn't have earned Rdm a spot in a party.
Soloing: (See: Ryuotas) he shows how powerful a rdm's damage mitigation can actually be by utilizing fast cast -> Stoneskin, /nin and PDT-.
DD'ing: Rdm will never see a spot anywhere as a DD no matter how badly anyone wants to see it. No spell will earn you a slot over a Drk/Sam/War/Mnk. 2h jobs are vastly superior to one handed jobs. It's how the game is coded to work; their Ratio cap is even higher than one-handed jobs. This also goes for THF, PUP, BLU, BST, NIN, DNC etc.
End Game: End game is pretty much a proc job/not used for everyone else but the suggested jobs. BST at least has Dynamis and even that was nerfed for them.
Ending conclusion: There is no need for a job that "can fit every situation" when the real situation now-a-days is zerging. There also trends in this game, like every other MMO. Players find the classes who are the best, if they don't fit the bill, you're out. -
08-10-2012, 05:36 AMDemon6324236
Trust me I have seen the solo videos you are talking about, I actually talked to him on AH.com for a time and told him how good of a RDM I think he is. My point on damage mitigation still stands however, it only goes so far, the larger the damage the less useful a RDM's abilities become, and eventualy they become useless. But all in all my point was for endgame RDM is lacking, thats why spells are asked for, the majority of my reply was based on the idea of one of your 1st things you said.
And my reason in a very short way is, we dont, we just want to be of use in endgame, and are trying to find a way of doing it.Quote:
Why does it seem like the Rdm community wants Rdm to be a god at everything a second time around?
Ideas to restrict TP attacks, or generally enfeeble a mob, are attempts to use our strongest skill as a way in, but these sadly wouldn't work even if added probably because SE would make all of the mobs we need it on, immune. Ideas of DDing are not completely impossible, I myself DD as a RDM quite well, in cases I have done better than heavy DDs in VW, the point is that for it to be something more likely to be acceptable is we would need to have to have a spell making our attack & our accuracy higher, because these are the problems that mainly get in our way besides simply being a 1 hand job.
As for fitting in all situations, I completly agree, we currently have nothing like it. If SE were to make an event with completely random events taking place inside, where one could not prepare for it, and it changed every run, then RDM might have a place in it. But it comes down to if they would make such an event correctly. Zergs are the main thing that stop this kind of content, because SE has made things so impossible that everything needs a form of invincible in a way to survive. So even if an event like this were made, it would likely end up a PD/Embrava Zerg attempt whenever you tried to do it.