Ther case for -Prep as related to gear ect

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Originally Posted by Tannlore

If you have trouble managing your hate vs. your avatar go out there and learn how avatar hate management works and stop thinking its some fickle unknown process.

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Assault > Blood Pact: Rage > wait for a few more hits before going in > ??? > Profit?
Oh and don't merit STR like an idiot like I did?

Side note: Melee SMN work in Abyssea because we can fall on atma as a crutch. It's actually fairly easy to out DD your avatar if you have a high DMG staff (around 55+) if you're not careful. Most times when I do that, I do more damage than the other DD in the party. But a lot of them are also gimp so... Guess this was a bad comparison.

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Originally Posted by Soranika

Assault > Blood Pact: Rage > wait for a few more hits before going in > ??? > Profit?
Oh and don't merit STR like an idiot like I did?

Side note: Melee SMN work in Abyssea because we can fall on atma as a crutch. It's actually fairly easy to out DD your avatar if you have a high DMG staff (around 55+) if you're not careful. Most times when I do that, I do more damage than the other DD in the party. But a lot of them are also gimp so... Guess this was a bad comparison.

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I have full STR merits myself actually and have little trouble with this at all (did it for drk and drg). Do you have full enmity merits?

Outside of abyssea I swing at 500+ with a level 3 aftermath going and after a Bloodpact my avatar is still tanking. Then again, outside of abyssea, not many things LIVE after 1 blood pact at all to begin with. :D

But all this still brings to point: Why not melee with your avatar if it isn't detrimental or not your "play style". Again, nothing at all wrong with it not being your play style.

If I remember correctly, I've left my merits at STR +5, MND +3. I've been thinking of changing full merits on INT or CHR. Depends on if I start spending more time on SCH or on DNC... I'm REALLY loving DNC at the moment. And - enmity max merits.

I haven't ever out DD my avatars (with the exception of Carby... poor Carby) outside of abyssea with my physical trial staves. But inside, gotta let them do their business and have words with the mobs before I enter. Like I mentioned in my other thread, I 'grew up' being a melee summoner on my down time when looking for a party. I didn't kite bombs to level, which probably explains why I'm only decent at it and not spectacular like most SMN should be.

Unlike the other people, the only reason why I see SMN as intangible support DD along side their avatars in parties is because they're squishy (But really... DRKs aren't any better) and are basically TP feeders when both avatar and SMN are on the mob. A bad thing when facing something with a lot of TP abilities. It's just a personal observation that while now great DD, SMN CAN make pretty decent damage with the new staves and good equipment as long as they maintain their wits about them. But for dangerous marks, it is better for a SMN to stay out of the fray with the other mages and support casters.

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Originally Posted by Soranika

Unlike the other people, the only reason why I see SMN as intangible support DD along side their avatars in parties is because they're squishy (But really... DRKs aren't any better) and are basically TP feeders when both avatar and SMN are on the mob. A bad thing when facing something with a lot of TP abilities. It's just a personal observation that while now great DD, SMN CAN make pretty decent damage with the new staves and good equipment as long as they maintain their wits about them. But for dangerous marks, it is better for a SMN to stay out of the fray with the other mages and support casters.

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Yes and no, and this is where the problem for everyone lies. People like to slap on an extreme tone for this: "But for dangerous marks, it is better for a SMN to stay out of the fray with the other mages and support casters"This isn't always the case and is really dependent on the situation. I know this isn't what you mean, but I pulled it out of context because that's what some people like to do when they read on here. They will scan a post, find one sentence that rips'em off and go to town on it.

In most party situations I'll be fighting BIG nms that are usually non-solos for me. In these cases, no I will not be out there swinging my staff at the mob because they 99.9% of the time have AoEs. Also, in a party situation I differ from the pure meele smn meat heads in that I believe smn is in a support role there and should in those cases stand back and help support while their avatar does it's job. In my LS though this usually means I'm the one tanking with my avatar so I definitely do not want to go in there and do anything to tangle up enmity in any sort of way. Believe it or not, There are lots of times my Hvergelmir isn't on my back.... esp. in these situations.

In solo situations, where most melee smn will melee typically (most, not all.. Dallas has said he likes to jump in even during groups for instance) is where I'll take my staff out and wail on things till the cows come home. But like I said earlier, depends on if it's AoE happy or a hate resetter. TP move spammer doesn't bother me too much if I know that A) my avatar will survive and B) I can kill is fast enough. Just have to use brains when it comes down to it like you said.

The animosity, Tann, will never end until SMN community accepts that a backline SMN is a subset of melee SMN. Moving to the backline is a conscious decision to ignore half the job's potential. There are a few reasons that are acceptable, but anywhere a WAR can melee, everyone can melee.

"I can AFK" is just complete incompetence and deserves to be run out of the forum.

I wouldn't say that Dallas. It is rather "Everywhere a taru can melee, a SMN can melee". A big bulky galka WAR would survive things my SMN can only dream of.

I don't remember anyone saying, "I can AFK" as what they wanted to do. They said I'll back away and let the avatar do the work and not melee: There is a difference there.

I agree on your point about the animosity, but the approach you're using is way too heavy handed and only fostering more and more animosity. Diplomacy was never your strong point :p I reiterate my earlier post: Proof.

Nothing will shut a room of people up faster than good solid indisputable proof. Well at the very least it'll shut'em up a little bit. As it stands you're profile is unlinked to your summoner, there's no proof you have any gear you say you have or you can actually do what you say you can. You've posted no data, no videos, no... nothing. So it looks like you're hiding an aweful lot and just... trolling for the sake of trolling. You're surprised this is the reaction from people?

This thread has a post advocating AFK for magian trials. Don't look for it, it was said in defense of underskilled staff, the same guy who was qualified to say Hver tickled mobs because he tried Full Swing once with Fay.

I have to be heavy handed. These skulls are thick. There's no reason for data. They aren't really interested.

I'm probably just going to work on Mala's fear of death. Mala deserves to have fun.

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I'm probably just going to work on Mala's fear of death. Mala deserves to have fun.

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I deserve 17 KKK fangs and 50 walrus stuffs and I can join in on the fun.

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Originally Posted by Tannlore

I don't remember anyone saying, "I can AFK" as what they wanted to do. They said I'll back away and let the avatar do the work and not melee: There is a difference there.

I agree on your point about the animosity, but the approach you're using is way too heavy handed and only fostering more and more animosity. Diplomacy was never your strong point :p I reiterate my earlier post: Proof.

Nothing will shut a room of people up faster than good solid indisputable proof. Well at the very least it'll shut'em up a little bit. As it stands you're profile is unlinked to your summoner, there's no proof you have any gear you say you have or you can actually do what you say you can. You've posted no data, no videos, no... nothing. So it looks like you're hiding an aweful lot and just... trolling for the sake of trolling. You're surprised this is the reaction from people?

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I think he was referring to this post:

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Originally Posted by Me

So in choosing to fight an EP for a mindless trial that can complete semi-afk over DCs for the same trial in Abyssea that I could also kill semi-afk you feel some kind of gulf in skill opens up? It's funny because the only real difference here isn't skill(there's no skill involved in killing trash mobs), it's actually that you have a desperate need to seem right and will try any argument to push that notion. You kill DC and call it skill, whereas I kill EPs because they die faster, and save my discussions of skill for when, talking about soloing NMs.

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But once again he displays either an unwillingness or just plain inability to comprehend simple written english. What was a statement about how easy it is to kill <EMs solo for a trial, was partially read at best and intrepretted in a way that is negative to non-melee mages.