On Red Mage melee...

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Originally Posted by Rosina

First off your auto attack is still active when you cast. And at times your casting anime is over ridden with an attack.

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that's sort of a glitch. in that the spell "happens" faster than it takes to actually animate. so you can swing during a lengthy animation because, as far as the game is concerned, you're done casting.

you can also see this with multihits, all the hits HAPPEN at once, but it takes time to animate them all. so for example, duel wielding in aby with apoc atma.. you get a lucky 6hit proc as you hit a spell macro. all 6 of those hits landed at once, right before you started casting.. but the game may still animate those 6 swings in sequence anyway, wich can make it look like you were swinging away mid-spell. (another fun example, the first time i fought charybdis... he kept swinging after i was dead. for like a solid second)

but while the spell is charging, the delay ticker stops.


i mean i WISH it kept ticking away while we were casting, i've actually suggested that as a job trait for rdm.. but that's not how it is now.

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Originally Posted by Doombringer

i mean i WISH it kept ticking away while we were casting, i've actually suggested that as a job trait for rdm.. but that's not how it is now.

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I think one of the CMs at one point may have said it wasn't possible. I think it was that or doublecast. Would be nice if someone could confirm.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I think one of the CMs at one point may have said it wasn't possible. I think it was that or doublecast. Would be nice if someone could confirm.

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Within the way the game currently works it wouldn't be possible to make a "double cast" effect. As in two spells going off at the same time, think the server can only have one action per actor at any point in time. This is why "Quick Cast" is their answer, basically next spell is instant cast / instant recast (hopefully). So you can throw out two of the same spells in slightly more then the same time it would take to cast it twice. Can be useful as we can open SC, QC Tier IV Nuke and maybe squeeze out another lower tiered nuke.

True story, back when I was leveling SAM by best friend was leveling RDM and we always partied with each other. This is back during SC / MB days btw. I would coordinate the SC's trying to SC off two members (Tank + other Melee) and my buddy got extremely good at double magic bursting, usually ended up doing more then the BLM. Had several parties where we'd roll out with 2x RDM as our nukers vs the BLM + RDM set. But we're talkes ages ago. Also my friend was a hard core "mage" RDM, he didn't melee much but understood that I preferred that style. He eventually leveled WHM and became a main WHM due to him liking the healer style. Ohh and he got really good at MBing Banish / Holy spells on Fusion / Light SCs, use's to scare the sh!t out of people seeing a WHM pop off a Banishga II -> Banish II MB.

Oh I see the merit in double bursting, and Quick Cast will definitely make it easier. I never got to cap fast cast before they nixed the FC cap, that'll be interesting to play with.

Either way, so we have a self-cast double attack spell. I can cross that off the list of suggested melee buffs. Barring the possibility of SE raising our sword and dagger skill levels, more WS access and more gear choices, what else should we be lobbying for to help our melee side?

Fixed Enspell IIs?

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Originally Posted by Supersun

Fixed Enspell IIs?

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Ok. Let's go with that. I think Enspell IIs should lower same element resistances (Enfire II lowering a mob's fire resistance), and the ramp up time should be cut in half. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

I'm not sure I agree with that. In any given situation one style will be more useful than the other, the problem is that we don't have an agreed upon method of measuring that.

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I personally dont feel there is a need to measure anything since it really is relative to the person being asked. Even if for specific situation where one style may be better than the other, that still doesnt mean you totally abandon the other style. I mean if you have 2 ways to damage a mob why only use one over the other when you can use both and still do more damage over time than any one method could alone?

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

I personally dont feel there is a need to measure anything since it really is relative to the person being asked. Even if for specific situation where one style may be better than the other, that still doesnt mean you totally abandon the other style. I mean if you have 2 ways to damage a mob why only use one over the other when you can use both and still do more damage over time than any one method could alone?

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Because one is more effective while the other ends up being detrimental to the success of the task at hand.

You can believe in the heart of the cards all you like, but that won't change the fact that you don't use scissors to beat rock.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I agree with you. Most of us want to keep some semblance of the caster gameplay intact. I think I've been the only one willing to say "ok we can take from X and replace with Y to create the melee/front line focus". Other than that, the others have been staunch about not changing one but simply adding to the other.

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Well for me at least, I'm not trying to take anything away from magic but rather ADD more to melee. I would never suggest to a developer: "Hey add this and get rid of that" just because I dont find something useful and I dont use it. Just because I think something is crap doesnt give me the right to ruin it for somebody else that thinks its great, even if the numbers may not support it. So far from what I've seen, I dont think anybody is trying to weaken or remove what already exists for magic to improve melee or vice versa. then again there is over a 1000 posts and i'm not reading them all to say otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

just read the front page.

I melee'ed rdm, and it is not all that hard to do. First off your auto attack is still active when you cast. And at times your casting anime is over ridden with an attack. Second red mage is a light damage class much like thief. RDM do not need to dish out huge damage, they do more for the part then just dmg. And people lost the umderstanding of basic rpg things. Personally speaking, I had no issues with my buffing, debuffing, refreshing while melee. Just gotta keep up with a routine. As for the resists, well honestly even with the best gear resist can happen. I people forgot what it meant to play a video game, no one has any right to change how a person plays. As long. as you work as a team (no matter the playstyle) you can get stuff done. teamwork is not forcing people a certain way it is using your strangths to over come others weaknesses. Rdm is about being versitile. not a backline batterery.

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I couldnt have said it better myself Rosina this is the real problem overall and why rdm gets pigeon-holed as a healer. The fact is RDM has MULTIPLE skills to use against the mob is SUPPOSED to use them ALL to defeat the mob by the job description so all this one or the other BS anyway you look at it is UNDERUTILIZING the job from its intened purposes. Just RDM has the word mage in it doesnt mean that is its only strength. Apparently people don't understand what the word LEVERAGE mean as mentioned it various job descriptions for RDM.