New weapons with higher base damage then relics

One more disappointing thing is R/M/E had cool looking models a lot of these new crafted weapons are just the same old reused sinks from old crafted weapons. I have to trade in my Ragnarok and Ukon for something that looks like something out of 2003 FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

Dear SE.


For the first time ever you have managed to make me angry to the point where I actually consider quitting. I worked my ass off, 99-ing my Ukonvasara a year ago and I finished my 99 Masamune less than 2 weeks ago. I also did ADL 3 days a week for almost a full YEAR, getting marrows for my ls friends and myself. And as it seems, you just made all that time and effort a complete and utter waste and totally worthless.

You better give us the R/E/M upgrades FAST, and they better be damn good too.

Edit: and yes I know nobody cares if I quit or not, least of all SE, but I'm actually really upset.

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Id personally like to echo what this poster is saying, ive worked my arse of for years to get the gear i have on my charater today. Yes im annoyed and yes im angry before anyone starts asking. Id also like to take this chance to personally say sorry to the former boss tanaka, i use to hate everything you did but you know what you made a great game and to see it turn into this is a really sad day.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

One more disappointing thing is R/M/E had cool looking models a lot of these new crafted weapons are just the same old reused sinks from old crafted weapons. I have to trade in my Ragnarok and Ukon for something that looks like something out of 2003 FFXI.

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Oh, but atleast it's blue!

Know who I feel sorry for? The Community Reps. We're all angry and they are the ones who have to be our proxy to talk to the Devs. Hope they aren't posting atm because they are busy getting a 200%+ raise to deal with this shitstorm.

So I just had another thought. Does this update make BLM completely obsolete now (aside from high PDT mobs)? Considering that was the job I played for over 90% of my FFXI career, the damage well-geared BLMs can do compared to these ridiculous weapons (even the craftable, AHable ones!) is miniscule now. I'm actually pretty angry if my guessing is true whatsoever.

This update... wowzers.

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Originally Posted by Castoth

So I just had another thought. Does this update make BLM completely obsolete now (aside from high PDT mobs)? Considering that was the job I played for over 90% of my FFXI career, the damage well-geared BLMs can do compared to these ridiculous weapons (even the craftable, AHable ones!) is miniscule now. I'm actually pretty angry if my guessing is true whatsoever.

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To be fair, BLM has been pretty obsolete as a damage source for a long time compared to melee. However, yes. If the weapons are easily (or at all) obtainable then BLM will be substantially worse off by comparison. Here's how it plays out:
1) Every Melee job gets about +30~40% DPS
2) BLM gets . . . a staff that's only slightly better than 6 elemental magian staves wrapped into one.

So not only is BLM relatively a worse DD than it was before the patch, but the dedicated ones also get kicked in the nuts because 6 of their ToM staves have been outdated.

I've never intended to make a r/m/e, but this is nuts. GG SE? I'm afraid to log on and see what some of my LS mates might be doing right now o.o.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

To be fair, BLM has been pretty obsolete as a damage source for a long time compared to melee. However, yes. If the weapons are easily (or at all) obtainable then BLM will be substantially worse off by comparison. Here's how it plays out:
1) Every Melee job gets about +30~40% DPS
2) BLM gets . . . a staff that's only slightly better than 6 elemental magian staves wrapped into one.

So not only is BLM relatively a worse DD than it was before the patch, but the dedicated ones also get kicked in the nuts because 6 of their ToM staves have been outdated.

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That's what I figured. Not sure I want to keep playing at this point.

It will surely be balanced out (or in).

~ducks~

But yeah, if these items are real (or/and their numbers are), if anything, I'm more curious than annoyed. How/when will they be obtained, how and where do they really fit in as they would obviously be quite the change (considering magic and such, some adjustments I think were mentioned to be on the way, but just imagine old content with these things... Odd, I would probably call it), and what exactly do they have planned for the Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons (purrrhaps these are the next final forms... heh, mebbeh not).

Especially the 'limited time event' in “we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event” seems very peculiar to me, but I may digress a little.

Again, if real, I am definitely interested to see how, or rather what will unfold. As I'm not much for speculating, I'll leave it at that, keeping my guesstimates to myself.

For the sake of the good people working on the game, I really do hope they know what they're doing. =]


Changelog:

Add some forgotten thoughts.

Looks like they've started deleting threads...

LOL, well you can also start deleting them from the list of games you pay and play :)

Guess they don't want you to talk about people who no longer work at SE maybe.

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Originally Posted by erish

Id personally like to echo what this poster is saying, ive worked my arse of for years to get the gear i have on my charater today. Yes im annoyed and yes im angry before anyone starts asking. Id also like to take this chance to personally say sorry to the former boss tanaka, i use to hate everything you did but you know what you made a great game and to see it turn into this is a really sad day.

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http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...b108b35a26.jpg

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.

What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.

In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.

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Doesn't make it any less true. I'm sort of hoping they do an emergency maint to reduce the damage on these weapons to the max or 2-3 points above the max of what you'd get from an augmented Skirmish weapon.

So like... nobody is thinking of the possibility that there could be something about these weapons that dosnt make them the end-all-be-all of weapons? Everybody is screaming about how SE fucked up and this and that but cmon, *nobody* thought that a weapon with almost double the damage of literally everything up to this point is the least bit suspect?

I mean, remember this?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Accursed_Belt

For all we know they have a nasty hidden effect on them that is present everywhere else but in Delve or something that makes you have to make a choice between crazy high damage or survival.

Why don't we all simmer the hell down with the whole "Waaah new guy dosn't understand balance bring the other guy back!" thing until we have *actual information* to base this on, not just a picture of the stats on the weapon before unsubscribing?

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Originally Posted by Shibayama

So like... nobody is thinking of the possibility that there could be something about these weapons that dosnt make them the end-all-be-all of weapons?

For all we know they have a nasty hidden effect on them that is present everywhere else but in Delve or something that makes you have to make a choice between crazy high damage or survival.

Why don't we all simmer the hell down with the whole "Waaah new guy dosn't understand balance bring the other guy back!" thing until we have *actual information* to base this on, not just a picture of the stats on the weapon.

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See, the thing is... We know about these weapons, their damage, stats, and recipes from .dat miners. if they had a hidden effect, we'd know.

No. The .dats do not show hidden effects. That said, though, I seriously doubt that these weapons have hidden effects. Increasing melee damage by 30% is going to have a much larger impact on balance than the Enmity or pDIF changes of the last patch did.

lol pets . . . <_<;

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Originally Posted by Shibayama

So like... nobody is thinking of the possibility that there could be something about these weapons that dosnt make them the end-all-be-all of weapons?

For all we know they have a nasty hidden effect on them that is present everywhere else but in Delve or something that makes you have to make a choice between crazy high damage or survival.

Why don't we all simmer the hell down with the whole "Waaah new guy dosn't understand balance bring the other guy back!" thing until we have *actual information* to base this on, not just a picture of the stats on the weapon.

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That would be a very interesting idea. Say a souleater effect, but without the damage bonus. Cannot gain TP. 50% slow. Cannot be cured. Gives a nasty paralyze. There is a ton of stuff that could be done that might make you really think "Is it worth it"

These new craft-able weapons sure looks hot, I am sure it will cost milions at first till it become common items, give it time and everyone will soon have one :) Definitely not cool for those who spent time and efforts - not to mention millions gills for their R/M/E. And it is also not cool for those who did work on magian trials weapons. Oh well, we can all "nerd rage" and try to rationalize all we want, or you can keep taking whatever SE throws at you. There is always that last option, stop playing, feign ignorance and check back in 4 months or so to see if things are better or even worse for R/M/E. You can't say that the new director is afraid of shaking things up hah hah hah hah.

These weapons we're all pissed about, they'll be useless next month.

It's so fun to see people get their egos crushed when they're posed with the idea of not being the top dogs anymore. Of course, S-E will once again cater to these folks by making sure Delve yields as few rewards as possible--not to mention being as inaccessible to as many jobs as possible--to make sure these new weapons are as unattainable as these insecure folks' precious level 99 weapons are now.

How high a wall do you want S-E to erect, guys, until you're happy?

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Originally Posted by Hayward

It's so fun to see people get their egos crushed when they're posed with the idea of not being the top dogs anymore. Of course, S-E will once again cater to these folks by making sure Delve yields as few rewards as possible--not to mention being as inaccessible to as many jobs as possible--to make sure these new weapons are as unattainable as these insecure folks' precious level 99 weapons are now.

How high a wall do you want S-E to erect, guys, until you're happy?

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Cool story, troll.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

It's so fun to see people get their egos crushed when they're posed with the idea of not being the top dogs anymore. Of course, S-E will once again cater to these folks by making sure Delve yields as few rewards as possible--not to mention being as inaccessible to as many jobs as possible--to make sure these new weapons are as unattainable as these insecure folks' precious level 99 weapons are now.

How high a wall do you want S-E to erect, guys, until you're happy?

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The wall obviously isn't high enough if trolls are still getting in.

You can take that attitude somewhere else. I'd have asked you for your online gil receipts if I wanted to wind you guys up. I'm just hoping some of realize that this game cannot always be about "R/M/E only" jobs getting into endgame content.

If you were looking for sympathy over your not being king of the endgamers anymore, you're in the wrong forum. Most of us are too busy trying to improve our own characters and gain some enjoyment in the process.

It's not just the uber high-end people. Every weapon from AH fodder to fire-based magian has been rendered instantly obsolete. Whether it's something that fell in your lap or you slaved over for months, it's essentially crap now without warning or good reason.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

It's not just the uber high-end people. Every weapon from AH fodder to fire-based magian has been rendered instantly obsolete. Whether it's something that fell in your lap or you slaved over for months, it's essentially crap now without warning or good reason.

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This too, while there's salvation for the people who 99'd their R/M/E, it's a giant middle finger to all the AH gear and all the other quested gear. The only RME stuff safe from this, so far, is Shields, Horns, and tanking weapons. DT -11% weapons (pet astolfos, katanas/swords--for supertanking, because you won't be holding hate with that).

As someone else pointed out... this further gimps pets.

What are the chances this was a massive oversight though? Look at how the armor DEF is a slight increase from what we already have. Maybe the ridiculous damage is a mistake?

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Originally Posted by Camiie

It's not just the uber high-end people. Every weapon from AH fodder to fire-based magian has been rendered instantly obsolete. Whether it's something that fell in your lap or you slaved over for months, it's essentially crap now without warning or good reason.

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They did sorta the same thing with Abyssea. It outmoded a lot of stuff in the game. Because they kept adding new trials for relics/mythics and kept their power balanced with their empyrean cousins, those weapons didn't get completely replaced. And they intend to boost RMEs now so... pretty much the same thing as happened in Abyssea, just on a larger scale.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

They did sorta the same thing with Abyssea. It outmoded a lot of stuff in the game. Because they kept adding new trials for relics/mythics and kept their power balanced with their empyrean cousins, those weapons didn't get completely replaced. And they intend to boost RMEs now so... pretty much the same thing as happened in Abyssea, just on a larger scale.

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Thing is it was more expected with Abyssea because we were going from 75-80-90-95-99


It would have been silly for level 90 to be a sidegrade to level 75

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

They did sorta the same thing with Abyssea. It outmoded a lot of stuff in the game. Because they kept adding new trials for relics/mythics and kept their power balanced with their empyrean cousins, those weapons didn't get completely replaced. And they intend to boost RMEs now so... pretty much the same thing as happened in Abyssea, just on a larger scale.

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Just seems like they've gone completely off the rails on this latest gear reset. This is no mere incremental increase. At least the magian stuff was somewhat gradual. All of this new stuff is completely out of left field and I'm not sure it was/is really necessary to go as far as they have. I guess they'll come up with content to prove me wrong, but that's going to have to be some crazy ass shit as someone somewhere might say.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Thing is it was more expected with Abyssea because we were going from 75-80-90-95-99


It would have been silly for level 90 to be a sidegrade to level 75

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They've mentioned they wanted this sort of thing where there is an endgame gear ladder though. They want to steer away from the older format of sidegrades for years.

If anything is coming out of left field, it's the seemingly endless disapproval from the English-speaking players of this new game direction. I'm beginning to worry that I might have to learn Japanese if I want to keep playing this game into the forseeable future because there's been a marked increase in the number of English players complaining about changes well before they're even fully realized.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

They've mentioned they wanted this sort of thing where there is an endgame gear ladder though. They want to steer away from the older format of sidegrades for years.

If anything is coming out of left field, it's the seemingly endless disapproval from the English-speaking players of this new game direction. I'm beginning to worry that I might have to learn Japanese if I want to keep playing this game into the forseeable future because there's been a marked increase in the number of English players complaining about changes well before they're even fully realized.

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If this is a ladder, it's missing several steps.

personally i think this as the same thing they did with the NNI gear what was mined in the dats at first was way crazier than what we got aka i think there just place holders atm >.>

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Originally Posted by Metaking

personally i think this as the same thing they did with the NNI gear what was mined in the dats at first was way crazier than what we got aka i think there just place holders atm >.>

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What do you mean?

It's called gear progression, people. Cry a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

They did sorta the same thing with Abyssea. It outmoded a lot of stuff in the game. Because they kept adding new trials for relics/mythics and kept their power balanced with their empyrean cousins, those weapons didn't get completely replaced. And they intend to boost RMEs now so... pretty much the same thing as happened in Abyssea, just on a larger scale.

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There is a big difference. Back in the abyssea era relics were upgraded at the same time empyreans came out. Empyreans got to 85, relics/mythics got to 85 in the same patch, empyreans got to lv90 relics/mythics were 90 in the same patch and so on.

Now all we got is new weapons come out with 100+ base damage over 99 r/m/e and SE says, we have an outline of something we might do to boost up lv99 R/E/M but we don't know if we have the man power to implement it or not.

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Originally Posted by Keyln

It's called gear progression, people. Cry a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

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99 R/M/E take a large amount of real life hours to make or farm the gil needed. FFXI is unlike other MMOs like WoW, Starwars or something similar where you replace your weaopns all the time. There is a huge grind and time sink with each weapon.

SE pissing off the majority of their playerbase is not good for their company if they lose a lot of subs over it.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

There is a big difference. Back in the abyssea era relics were upgraded at the same time empyreans came out. Empyreans got to 85, relics/mythics got to 85 in the same patch, empyreans got to lv90 relics/mythics were 90 in the same patch and so on.

Now all we got is new weapons come out with 100+ base damage over 99 r/m/e and SE says, we have an outline of something we might do to boost up lv99 R/E/M but we don't know if we have the man power to implement it or not.

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One thing wrong; Emps got 99 implemented while Relics were on hold for a few weeks.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

There is a big difference. Back in the abyssea era relics were upgraded at the same time empyreans came out. Empyreans got to 85, relics/mythics got to 85 in the same patch, empyreans got to lv90 relics/mythics were 90 in the same patch and so on.

Now all we got is new weapons come out with 100+ base damage over 99 r/m/e and SE says, we have an outline of something we might do to boost up lv99 R/E/M but we don't know if we have the man power to implement it or not.

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Relics were left fairly weak in comparison to empies for a while, and still harder to obtain. It wasn't until voidwatch that they started evening out the playing field by giving empies less gain from 90-99 while being more difficult to obtain those upgrades and doing the exact opposite thing to relics and mythics (easier to obtain than empy 90-99, and bigger gains). If I'm not mistaken, Dynamis wasn't turned neo-mode until after heroes of abyssea.

That is when the playing field evened out, not during the abyssea releases. So again, the same thing is happening here: RMEs look unappealing because they require a lot of work, and that work would be better spent getting a delve weapon. Given time, SE will attempt to rework the RMEs so they still compete with these newer weapons.