Ok...let me level with you here SE...

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Originally Posted by Camate

The development team had looked into changing the trial requirements in this way; however, for a variety of reasons they decided it would be better to not make this change. The biggest reason for this decision is that it was explained previously on the forum that the basis for stage 1 enhancements would be item collection and their thinking is that as long as there are people who have already started collecting these items, it would be best not to change the trial.

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Really think that this stops them adding an alternate path to stage 1... no it doesn't

Basically 20 ADL kills should be the max of what people should be required to do meaning it should either be 1-2 items or 20 kills (if you have both paths available then u could have 5-10 items)

REALLY IT SHOULD WORK LIKE THIS THO

Stage 1 = 20 kills of ADL
Stage 2 = 100 ADL items

So that stage 1 feeds stage 2

Basically every relic user could get there stage 1 99 version and there would be around 1 stage 2 for every 150-200 relics which is exactly what you want right SE.

While this is the most clear option there are plenty of alternate way you can choose to fix this....

2000 coins = X U.marrow u need to complete stage 1.
U.marrow to drop of all NMs
M.trail neck that for 10k exp in Dyna = 1 U.marrow.

As for Mythics

Stage 1 : 1-2 PW kills (i'd go with 1 here cause the fight is v/ job specific)
Stage 2 : 10 PW items

Emps

Stage 1 : Kill any T6 X 30
Stage 2 :Riftxxxxx X 100-200

EIther way as for not playing FFXIV if ya add this or not ..... well i'm not gonna play it anyway cause i will never play another MMO made by SE while i enjoyed FFXI it focused tooo much on repeating the same stuff X10000.

but if you listen and make the trails relative then i'll prolly be playing FFXI for 2-3 more years to make more relic/mythic/emps since they don't take 1-2 years to get 99 (stage 1)

This just pretty much sums up why anyone who has played XI will not buy any more Square Enix products for like, ever.
Anyone up for some Tales of Vesperia?

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

Anyone up for some Tales of Vesperia?

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Love that game, and majority of tales games. ^^



On-Topic:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

REALLY IT SHOULD WORK LIKE THIS THO

[COLOR="#4169e1"]Stage 1 = 20 kills of ADL
Stage 2 = 100 ADL items

So that stage 1 feeds stage 2

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I completely agree with this, 100 items may seem a little high though, but the idea is in the right place. Stage 1 should be kills while the harder to complete should be the items themselves.

This way person A) 99 Stage 1 can farm pops and get person B) 95 to come and help out and it's pretty much win/win for both parties.

I think the whole reason people are BS'ing over these trials is.... the items are the exact same for both which is just not right. These relics/mythics/maybe not so much emps, are weapons of power, and the relics/mythics have more background to them through quests etc. maybe give these weapons a bit more depth with some kind of quest or storyline to go through for stage 1? Give our weapons a bit more depth before just jumping into the grind for 1000000000000000 items.

We've been doing these crazy collect X number of item trials since abyssea came out, and honestly we want something new, something unique. We want... new content. As awesome as the ADL is (yeaaaaa......right) what are we really accomplishing by just spamming him over and over and over and over? Are we proving that we're awesome players?! No not really. Maybe after a fight or two, but honestly after the 100th fight it really does just get......boring.

But where I stand on this:

Stage 1: NEEDS SERIOUS REVISIONS on the Relic/Mythic side at least, I don't want the exact same items used for stage 2 to be used for stage 1

Stage 2: Honestly sucks, but hey Stage 2 isn't supposed to be obtainable by "most players"

Might be somewhat redundent but the more people that speak out the better... or at least I'd like to think so.... SE -.-

You (devs) realize that you've invariably made relics the hardest weapons to upgrade? Camate posted your thought process of mythic > relic > empyrean, when in fact it is empyrean > mythic > relic (mythics may be easier than empyrean with zeni buff). But my point is that relics are so much more difficult than either mythic or empyrean; how could you ever fathom them being easier to upgrade than empyreans? Rift items are an absolute joke to get.

How is it fair that relic users can only farm items for their upgrade 2 hours a day when empyrean users can spam VWNMs all day long? It's almost guaranteed that at least one person out of the 18 will get 1 rift item, and since you seem to have no problem forcing people to lot over a single item (ADL drop), how is this any different from allowing those that receive rift items to give them to a single person until everyone completes their empyrean weapon. Basically what I'm saying is, assuming that only person is receiving the drop (like PW or ADL), empyrean users will only need to kill 20-60 VWNMs for each weapon. The difficulty of this upgrade is so far below relics that you'd have to be delusional to think otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

I asked the development team about the possibility of changing the trial requirements from collecting specific items to straight up kills of the specific notorious monster, since there were quite a lot of comments regarding this topic.

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Awesome, much appriciated as always.

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The development team had looked into changing the trial requirements in this way; however, for a variety of reasons they decided it would be better to not make this change. The biggest reason for this decision is that it was explained previously on the forum that the basis for stage 1 enhancements would be item collection and their thinking is that as long as there are people who have already started collecting these items, it would be best not to change the trial.

Also, there is quite a difference in between item collection and kills. For item trials, in an 18 person fight, one person will receive an item. Whereas for a trial requirement involving a specific number of kills, in an 18 person fight, all 18 people would receive the kill credit. While it’s not really as simple as multiplying it 18 times, since the basic thinking would be that the kill count should be greater than the number of items, in the event that we were to change the trial requirements from item collection to kills, there is a high possibility that the number would rise significantly.

Currently since we are only looking into devising the appropriate number of items to collect, I am not going to be able to tell you an estimate of how many kills it would take, but please know that there would most likely be a huge gap between the numbers.

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Then don't change the trial, just add alternative trials to reach the same result. Most people here would like a trial that can be done with 3-6 people or so. The small minority gets their weapon because they've been working on it already. The majority of people who haven't started (And can't gather an army at their command) can start their own unique trial that, while likely just as time consuming or even more so, can still get their weapon in the end as well. There's two important points:

1) It's win-win, the devs excuse is nonsense. We can make both work.
2) We know we can have two trials that lead to the same result, as seen with relic armor +2.

So please, ask the devs to stop lying and tell us the real reason why they're making the trial like this. That is unless, of course, they actually believe this nonsense themselves.

Also, why do they care about the amount of weapons that're 99 compared to 95 ones? What difference does it make other than some extra stats? Why does it matter if the number significantly rises? I'd especially like to know the devs thoughts on this question, so please Camate, if you could.

Even -one- item to collect off Arch Dynamis Lord is asking for a whole lot. Their player base has changed... The devs must realise this.

I think the problem is they are trying to run 2-3 mmos now and they don't have the resources to do it, as such they are making these horrible massive time sink crap that's going to make the playerbase of all their games ragequit.

I put up with this crap in the past with salvage etc but after the fun I had with Abyssea and at this stage of the games life, this crap isn't going to fly. Everything since Abyssea has been crap ontop of more crap ontop of more crap, I'm really angry they are ruining a game I love so much. It's sad that they make horrible decisions and they never listen, never learn and keep pumping out more of it. Legion is going to be such a pile of crap, even if it's fun the drop system will make VW rage seem like a walk in the park. They are just so set in their ideal of punishing us all as players, maybe it's punishment for us all not loving 14 and him getting fired...idk.

The reposnses are madening because it's like talking to someone that refuses to listen to you and just pushes their own ideas, not budging an inch away from them..no matter how much you try to plead with them.

The thing about worrying about people that already started the trials is garbage too, my relic made 4 years ago (that took me 2 years) got no such thoughts when they made them so much easier to get now. The amount of killshots I had to do on it at the begining just before they nerfed them to 1/4 of the amounts had similar attention to the work I put in, they don't care about who started the trial at all.

Nothing against Camate, since he is jsut the messenger but the devs are being frigging stupid and arrogant.

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EIther way as for not playing FFXIV if ya add this or not ..... well i'm not gonna play it anyway cause i will never play another MMO made by SE while i enjoyed FFXI it focused tooo much on repeating the same stuff X10000.

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This so much, after being punished for being a long time subscriber to their flagship MMO the way we are being here I don't know how anyone could ever considering playing any other MMO put out by Square. Unless you like being crapped on anyway.

This post on FFXIAH has a useful solution that solves all the problems posed:

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Originally Posted by Ragnarok.Legandarycyclone

I think an easy fix for the weapons would be to leave the 99 trial as is, but hear me out.

To get to level 99 stage:
20 Umbral Marrow for Relics
10 Mulcibar's Scoria for Mythics
60 Riftdross/Riftcinder for Empyreans

To get the afterglow 99 stage: (these numbers are just random)
300 Arch Dynamis Lord Kills (Relic)
200 Pandemonium Warden Kills (Mythic)
??? for Empyrean (500 Riftcinder/Riftdross?)

I think formatting the trials this way would be much better than needing the same item for the 99 stage AND the afterglow stage. Even if they make it that you have to kill a ridiculous amount of ADL or PW for the afterglow stage, at least it will be more feasible. It would also encourage people who finish their 99 stage to help with more ADL and PW kills rather than just bail when they get their items. So that's my two cents.

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http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/28...es/16/#1737924

With this setup, people who have already obtained items for the 99 trial will not be punished, and those people (if there are any) who were going for the glow trial would be able to reclaim their gil. I would recommend 500 Ig-Alima or Botulus Rex kills for the Empyrean glow trial.

This would ensure a long-lasting and steady supply of the items that people need to upgrade to the NQ level 99 relic weapons.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

I think the problem is they are trying to run 2-3 mmos now and they don't have the resources to do it, as such they are making these horrible massive time sink crap that's going to make the playerbase of all their games ragequit.

I put up with this crap in the past with salvage etc but after the fun I had with Abyssea and at this stage of the games life, this crap isn't going to fly. Everything since Abyssea has been crap ontop of more crap ontop of more crap, I'm really angry they are ruining a game I love so much. It's sad that they make horrible decisions and they never listen, never learn and keep pumping out more of it. Legion is going to be such a pile of crap, even if it's fun the drop system will make VW rage seem like a walk in the park. They are just so set in their ideal of punishing us all as players, maybe it's punishment for us all not loving 14 and him getting fired...idk.

The reposnses are madening because it's like talking to someone that refuses to listen to you and just pushes their own ideas, not budging an inch away from them..no matter how much you try to plead with them.

The thing about worrying about people that already started the trials is garbage too, my relic made 4 years ago (that took me 2 years) got no such thoughts when they made them so much easier to get now. The amount of killshots I had to do on it at the begining just before they nerfed them to 1/4 of the amounts had similar attention to the work I put in, they don't care about who started the trial at all.

Nothing against Camate, since he is jsut the messenger but the devs are being frigging stupid and arrogant.

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Bolded for truth I am/was in the same boat

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It's also depressing to see how Yoshi and the 'new' XIV team are bending over backwards to try to listen and accommodate players' suggestions and criticisms as they [SE] work on XIV 2.0, while the XI team after a period a year or so back of apparently learning from the years of completely ignoring the XI playerbase and making many changes to XI to make it more 'user friendly' (and reaping much praise for their changed attitude), have now sunk back into their former deaf-to-the-players state.

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FFXI had it's "listen to the playerbase" period too, no matter what the current lead of FFXIV is doing that can change in a blink of an eye, just as happened in XI when we got captain balance back. As FFXI players right now we are being punished for being loyal subscribers and being treated like crap, if you play, or plan to play any other SE MMO you better expect the same treatment. They don't value us, they just want to do as little work as possible to keep us paying them. That's what this trial is, we can understand a certain amount of this kind of content but when it's this blatant and obvious it's pretty disrespectful.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

This post on FFXIAH has a useful solution that solves all the problems posed:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/28...es/16/#1737924

With this setup, people who have already obtained items for the 99 trial will not be punished, and those people (if there are any) who were going for the glow trial would be able to reclaim their gil. I would recommend 500 Ig-Alima or Botulus Rex kills for the Empyrean glow trial.

This would ensure a long-lasting and steady supply of the items that people need to upgrade to the NQ level 99 relic weapons.

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Unless someone is currently suffering from the largest brain tumor known to man, nobody is going to do the stage 2 trials. I want to say that there isn't a human being out there quite stupid enough to sacrifice so much gil (killing ADL instead of farming currency) to make their weapon glow, but maybe there is; and if there is, we'll all be able to see them glow so we can point and laugh and feel better about ourselves.

Disregarding the ridonkulous trials being devised, I find it borderline hilarious that they reason not changing anything in general because some players might have already collected some of the items that will be required for them...

I'm not biting that. >.>;

From the Jp forum the planned number is ....
here
Relic Weapon: 5
Mythic Weapon: 3
Emp Weapon: 60

Still annoying... but least it's not 20 :(

There was something about getting kill but i think they said the same thing that it wouldn't be added cause of pple already collecting items.

Also they said something about if it was kills it would be item X 18 in kill so near 100 kills .... goddamn

Edit : Honestly i feel this is still dumb
Wish they make us work for new gear not existing gear that already required months/years of work :(

Does the dev team enjoy building a game just to bring it down?

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

From the Jp forum the planned number is ....

Relic Weapon: 5
Mythic Weapon: 3
Emp Weapon: 60

Still annoying... but least it's not 20 :(

There was something about getting kill but i think they said the same thing that it wouldn't be added cause of pple already collecting items.

Also they said something about if it was kills it would be item X 18 in kill so near 100 kills .... goddamn

Edit : Honestly i feel this is still dumb
Wish they make us work for new gear not existing gear that already required months/years of work :(

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Still not acceptable.

Mythics are fine now. You can easily build all the sets in a week with a couple alts or some help and then kill 3 PW in 1 sitting with virtually no chance of failure and most LSs would only have to do this 1-3 times or none at all.

As for relics.... my LS gets to kill ADL 100-150 times to finish everyone's 99 relic? Count me the fuck out. There's too many relics in circulation. They need to realize this. You can't look at this trial as a simple number. There's too many factors that just aren't being accounted for. Keep the item trial but add the drop to mobs that can be killed with 2-6 people and increase the number required to 20-30. Trial fixed and all is right. The order really would be mythic < relic < emp. With those new numbers it's now mythic < emp < relic.

All they have to do is ADD it to regular DL, which can be trioed now a days.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Mythics are fine now. You can easily build all the sets in a week with a couple alts or some help and then kill 3 PW in 1 sitting with virtually no chance of failure and most LSs would only have to do this 1-3 times or none at all.

As for relics.... my LS gets to kill ADL 100-150 times to finish everyone's 99 relic? Count me the fuck out. There's too many relics in circulation. They need to realize this. You can't look at this trial as a simple number. There's too many factors that just aren't being accounted for. Keep the item trial but add the drop to mobs that can be killed with 2-6 people and increase the number required to 20-30. Trial fixed and all is right. The order really would be mythic < relic < emp. With those new numbers it's now mythic < emp < relic.

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They don't care how many Relics are in circulation, just as they don't care how many Emp 90's are in circulation. (See 1500 HMP trial.) From their actions, they clearly don't want 100% of the Relics finished, only an "acceptable" percentage.

Honestly, 5 ADL items per relic is a lot more reasonable for my LS when you take into account the relicholders, the people who want Arch boss drops, and the people who don't usually enter Dyna who want DKP. Although I still take issue with their statement that a majority of people with appropriate equipment would likely be able to finish these trials. ADL is still not PUG content. Only in a large LS setting with an Arch Boss event rotation would these ever get done...and even then a LS will probably do ADL a few times a month, 36 times a year. They really misled people IMO.

Ok well... It DOES "Technically" fall into the realm of "doable by most groups of 95"...

I still think it's a bit much. It would be acceptable if you could get the Umbral Marrow from any Arch Dynamis Boss.

How about this:

Bastok/Sandy/Windurst Dynamis: Arch Dynamis Stone = 25% Chance at Umbral Marrow.
Valkrum/Bubu/Qufim Dynamis: Arch Marlboro/Dragon/Gigas = 33% Chance at Umbral Marrow.
Beacedine Dynamis: Arch Angra Manyu = 50% Chance at Umbral Marrow.
Xarcabard/Tavnazia Dynamis: Arch Dynamis Lord/Diablos(DSCH) = 100% Chance at Umbral Marrow.

And:
Dynamis Lord/Diablos(nq) = 5% chance.
Angra Manyu = 3% Chance.
Any City "Boss" Stone = 1% Chance

Can you put in that request?

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

From the Jp forum the planned number is ....
here
Relic Weapon: 5
Mythic Weapon: 3
Emp Weapon: 60

Still annoying... but least it's not 20 :(

There was something about getting kill but i think they said the same thing that it wouldn't be added cause of pple already collecting items.

Also they said something about if it was kills it would be item X 18 in kill so near 100 kills .... goddamn

Edit : Honestly i feel this is still dumb
Wish they make us work for new gear not existing gear that already required months/years of work :(

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"5 ok?"

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/9673/20969082.jpg

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Originally Posted by Frost

Ok well... It DOES "Technically" fall into the realm of "doable by most groups of 95"...

I still think it's a bit much. It would be acceptable if you could get the Umbral Marrow from any Arch Dynamis Boss.

How about this:

Bastok/Sandy/Windurst Dynamis: Arch Dynamis Stone = 25% Chance at Umbral Marrow.
Valkrum/Bubu/Qufim Dynamis: Arch Marlboro/Dragon/Gigas = 33% Chance at Umbral Marrow.
Beacedine Dynamis: Arch Angra Manyu = 50% Chance at Umbral Marrow.
Xarcabard/Tavnazia Dynamis: Arch Dynamis Lord/Diablos(DSCH) = 100% Chance at Umbral Marrow.

And:
Dynamis Lord/Diablos(nq) = 5% chance.
Angra Manyu = 3% Chance.
Any City "Boss" Stone = 1% Chance

Can you put in that request?

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I know you are probably low balling so this might look more attractive to someone who develops MMOs and hates fun but please don't give them any ideas. At 5 items required all Arch bosses should drop 1, ADL and Arch Diabolos should drop 2-3 and DL/Diabolos/Angra should have a 10% chance of 1, and City Bosses could be left off the list since they are used for trials and we don't want people working on 2 trials at once do we!?!

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

I asked the development team about the possibility of changing the trial requirements from collecting specific items to straight up kills of the specific notorious monster, since there were quite a lot of comments regarding this topic.

The development team had looked into changing the trial requirements in this way; however, for a variety of reasons they decided it would be better to not make this change. The biggest reason for this decision is that it was explained previously on the forum that the basis for stage 1 enhancements would be item collection and their thinking is that as long as there are people who have already started collecting these items, it would be best not to change the trial.

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That is a pretty big pile of bull if you ask me. Making this change to Stage 1 does not in any way, shape, or form hurt the progression of the trial if anyone has already started on it since the items are still required for Stage 2 upgrades. Unless the Dev team meant to remake both trials, this is just about the lamest excuse I've heard back for not changing Stage 1 requirements.

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Also, there is quite a difference in between item collection and kills. For item trials, in an 18 person fight, one person will receive an item. Whereas for a trial requirement involving a specific number of kills, in an 18 person fight, all 18 people would receive the kill credit. While it’s not really as simple as multiplying it 18 times, since the basic thinking would be that the kill count should be greater than the number of items, in the event that we were to change the trial requirements from item collection to kills, there is a high possibility that the number would rise significantly.

Currently since we are only looking into devising the appropriate number of items to collect, I am not going to be able to tell you an estimate of how many kills it would take, but please know that there would most likely be a huge gap between the numbers.

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That is the problem, Camate. The fight requires an alliance worth of individuals to complete meaning, taking current drop rates in consideration, the time to complete 5 relics to stage 1 99 is rather extreme. ADL drops 1 of these currently....1. I acknowledge that you stated the trials are not set in stone on the number needed to complete, but either way this is very hit or miss due to the nature of the fight and what it takes to get to it in a time restricted area. Getting to PW is getting a boost to make it far easier to gain pop sets, VWNM has the fact it drops wanted items to keep players interested, but Neo-dynamis is already outdated on drops. Other than the 100 piece I don't know many that want/desire any drops of ADL. Same can be said for PW still, but at least it isn't restricted to a 2 hour window of farming per day...you can get zeni, do fights, get trophies all day long. ADL you get Rare/ex pop items that can't be bought/traded and have to trek through the whole zone just to have maybe a handful of popsets by the end of the run, and if lucky able to get 1 or 2 fights out of the way, or you get a full alliance all pop items one run, do the lesser nms the next run, and devote the next few runs to just ADL (works for a structured LS, not so much the everyday "appropriately equipped 99 player).

Now to the underlined+bold part. Huh?!?!?! There are two ways to interpret this as it is written. A.) You are saying the Dev team is trying to limit the number of people who complete to lvl 99 relics despite saying that the trial would be completable by average appropriately geared players, or B.) You didn't read over what you just wrote. What number is rising significantly? The number of stage 1 99 weapons, or are did you mix up something between "increasing item drop rate" and "make the trial kills instead" ending up with "increase the drop rate and make the trial kills" or do you mean "with more that completed the kill trials, there would still be players who could not complete this as the interest in doing so would dwindle." (I can still argue against the last assumption since the drops would still be needed for stage 2 unless obliterating the collection trials all together, which is not made clear by your response)

Please tell me the JPs are still pissed and screaming "NO!"....

Items that drop from ADL only in any fashion is unacceptable.

Please let NQ DL drop 1 and ADL drop multiples... This is the only way I will accept these stupid fetch trials.

Oh and you better be adding multiple ???s for any of these. NB4 fighting over ???s in dynamis.

Can you at least ask them if they can

Add the Drop to Shadow Lord (NQ) At a lower rate? (20%~?) - That would be far more reasonable. Or add it to Dynamis lord at 100% but allow Arch Dynamis Lord to drop a "Pouch" instead, giving 5-15 Of them (Allowing multple people to complete the trial with 1 Pop)

Does that sound reasonable?

I know all 3 of the people who already started farming it might be a little upset, But the other 5,997 Relic Holders will thank you.

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

They don't care how many Relics are in circulation, just as they don't care how many Emp 90's are in circulation.

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You're right. They don't care and that's why this trial is messed up. It's something a good dev team would consider. People doing this trial as a group of 18 are sentenced to 3 nights of ADL a week for over 7 months to get everyone their 99. Mythics can finish in a week or 2 of lowman NM killing followed by a couple hours of PW. Emps can just lowman dynamis and buy rift items. The only reasonable way for a single person complete the ADL trial is in a PUG group of 17 other people who don't need the item. These might be possible for a week or 2 but that will die out fast and it will be LS only content in which case to not be an assh*le you need to kill ADL 5 times for every relic in your shell which is a number that for most shells is growing by 1-2 per month. Screw it, I could write a 10 page report on the cause and effect of this trial but it wouldn't do a damn thing because you are right. They don't care.

Why do they insist upon making ADL trial requirements greater than PW?

PW is a pushover now and can definitely be low-manned; this is not the case at all for ADL. I would say it's also much easier to get PW pops than ADL pops with the Zeni adjustment.

So why are more ADL items required than PW items, especially when there are sooo many more Relics than Mythics in circulation?

This is not balanced. SE needs to either...

1. Make ADL drop multiple Umbral Marrows (2-4 I feel would be a good, reasonable number)
2. Make other Bosses Arch and NQ drop Umbral Marrow.
3. Or adjust the stupid ADL fight itself so it's not a luck-based shitfest, at least making ADL's clones drop 1 Umbral Marrow so people don't farm a pop for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Creelo

Why do they insist upon making ADL trial requirements greater than PW?

PW is a pushover now and can definitely be low-manned; this is not the case at all for ADL. I would say it's also much easier to get PW pops than ADL pops with the Zeni adjustment.

So why are more ADL items required than PW items, especially when there are sooo many more Relics than Mythics in circulation?

This is not balanced. SE needs to either...

1. Make ADL drop multiple Umbral Marrows (2-4 I feel would be a good, reasonable number)
2. Make other Bosses Arch and NQ drop Umbral Marrow.
3. Or adjust the stupid ADL fight itself so it's not a luck-based shitfest, at least making ADL's clones drop 1 Umbral Marrow so people don't farm a pop for nothing.

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Making His Clones drop Umbral Marrow is actually one of the better ideas. So even if you Chose the wrong Door, You still get a prize!

Adding Umbral Marrow to every "Arch" NM would be a great Idea too.

Q: Has anyone checked if anything other than ADL Drops the Marrow?

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Can you at least ask them if they can

Add the Drop to Shadow Lord (NQ) At a lower rate? (20%~?) - That would be far more reasonable. Or add it to Dynamis lord at 100% but allow Arch Dynamis Lord to drop a "Pouch" instead, giving 5-15 Of them (Allowing multple people to complete the trial with 1 Pop)

Does that sound reasonable?

I know all 3 of the people who already started farming it might be a little upset, But the other 5,997 Relic Holders will thank you.

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The problem we run into now is that they want finishing a single mythic to be easier than finishing a single relic. If you could finish multiple relics in a single run that wouldn't be the case. The only way to get them balanced the way they want without creating a gigantic terrible bottleneck for marrows, due to the much larger number of relics in circulation, is to let relics work on their trial in smaller groups but to balance that they would need to up the time sink to re-balance the difficulty with mythics. So I agree with your 20% DL drop rate but ADL couldn't drop more than 2 items.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Q: Has anyone checked if anything other than ADL Drops the Marrow?

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People have killed Arch Diabolos on the real servers and not gotten marrow but who knows if they added them to anything else on the tset server. If they did I would hope they would tell us so we could all stfu.

Mmmm, Maybe. How about 3~5 >_>? Chance of finishing 1 Trial per kill. You still need to finish the other 17 peoples.

PW Would need no adjustment considering he's weak level 75 Content any pick up group could likely take out at 99 with some preparation...

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Originally Posted by Camate

item collection and their thinking is that as long as there are people who have already started collecting these items, it would be best not to change the trial.

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This is what I've been saying on forums for the past month.
And it's exactely the one and only reason why SE will NEVER change the trial.
Makes no sense to me, but alas it's what's gonna happen.
I really don't see why they have to be so adamant on their stance.
Would it be so hard to change it just for stage1? People who already started collecting would then be able to sell their items to people going for Stage2.
I mean, it's not like the items are "EX" and cannot be traded.

This also reminds me that it makes no sense at all to have the SAME item required for stage1 and stage2.
Not only people will be forced to compete with hundreds of other players going for stage1 creating an incredibly bad scenario for the upgrade items market, but they will also have to compete with people going for stage2!

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in the event that we were to change the trial requirements from item collection to kills, there is a high possibility that the number would rise significantly.

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I'd much rather have to do even 60 or more days of dynamis to upgrade a relic but WORKING TOGETHER rather than to collect 20 items but having to compete with others.

I mean what's the point of all of this? What's the idea, the approach, the goal developers have in mind?
Do they really think it's better for players to constantly fighting each other instead of working together?
Do they really think it's gonna be good for 17 people to do a fight for another single player?

Let's try to imagine I'm a player trying to upgrade a relic, how will I convince 17 other people to help me when they get ABSOLUTELY NOTHING out of it? It's not gonna be a single fight, I'm gonna have to convince them to help me for 20 fights, each of these fights will probably require me 1-2hrs since it's not that fast to gather the pop items for Arch Dynamis Lord.

Now let's try to imagine I'm not doing a relic. Why should I help a friends for a 2hrs event, 20 times, to make him upgrade his item when I get nothing out of it? Ok he's a friend, I won't mind helping him a few times, but how about twenty? How about I have multiple friends doing relics?

Did developers ever thought about the consequence? The amount of time/kills required? The fact that you can only enter dynamis once a day and, realistically, do only one fight per run? The fact that the zone could potentially be overcamped with other alliances trying to fight Dynamis lord since there is only 1 Dynamis - Xarcabard and 1 ??? to pop him?
Did they ever realize how many relics there are out in the markets and how many players are going to be pissed?
Why the complete lack of synergy?
So many players talked about how easier it would have been to have "kills trials" for stage1 and items for stage2, that way stage1 and stage2 players wouldn't have to compete against each other but would be able to WORK TOGETHER, you know the meaning of that? Working together? Should be one of the most important aspect in a MMORPG. People are supposed to be playing each other, this is not a deathmatch in an FPS online.
If players of all ages and all regions can easily understand this, how come developers can't understand it? It's supposed to be their job, their profession! They get paid for it!

If this is not a carrot on a stick, I don't know what is then.
I'd much rather have them create better activities to keep us playing this game and paying the monthly fees, instead that retarded and disappointing tricks like these.

It's 5 times now. Lower but still stupid.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Lol, I always kinda felt it was something like that. For most people, VII was the greatest game ever made, so any game that isnt VII, is going to suck for them.

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I like the true VII over the VII we have (Xenogears was originally intended to be ff7, but was "too dark" for a ff game, so was just continued as a standalone game)

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Can you at least ask them if they can

Add the Drop to Shadow Lord (NQ) At a lower rate? (20%~?) - That would be far more reasonable. Or add it to Dynamis lord at 100% but allow Arch Dynamis Lord to drop a "Pouch" instead, giving 5-15 Of them (Allowing multple people to complete the trial with 1 Pop)

Does that sound reasonable?

I know all 3 of the people who already started farming it might be a little upset, But the other 5,997 Relic Holders will thank you.

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They don't want to make it easier, in any way at all. Camate's repsonse from them said it all. They will listen and then totally ignore our feedback adn implement as intended. It really is like some sadistic guy in charge is punishing us all for being loyal players.

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It's 5 times now. Lower but still stupid.

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If they are dead set on this it should be 1, even then you have to compete with 17 others on that 1 item drop.

Honestly, I feel like them adding the Umbral Marrow, etc. into circulation before the trials were actually released was just a trap for the playerbase and a pathetic justification for them to not change the true trials.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

If they are dead set on this it should be 1, even then you have to compete with 17 others on that 1 item drop.

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They are looking at the trial on an individual basis and completely ignoring the bottleneck they are creating. I mean really they kind of have to build trial around the difficulty for one person. From that perspective 1 item is way way way too easy and really they would be justified in thinking that if they are trying to make relics harder than mythics but easier than emps. But the bottleneck has to be considered. The relic trial is not a simple fix. They can't just raise or lower the requirements they need to change the way the items are obtained.

Personally I don't think 5 is a bad choice for relics. Sure, some linkshells may need to work a year on it to get it for every one of their relics, but if they have people with four relics in it, I don't think that's too much to ask either. If someone can farm Dynamis every day for months on end to obtain a relic weapon in the first place, then repeat this again for three more relics, this hardly seems like an unsurmountable challenge, neither in effort nor duration. Only the focus will shift from solo efforts to linkshell efforts.

And don't even start with "nothing but Dynamis for a year", this is a 2h event. Even the most casual of players will be able to find a LS they can join regularly for this. These are, after all, the best three weapon classes in the game we're talking about, and considering that, I don't think a year's casual effort is too much to ask to get an entire linkshell upgraded on several weapons per player. Not to mention that this is still a gross exaggeration for the vast majority of linkshells in the game and most will likely be completely finished after a few months. As such I really can't find a reason to complain about 5 items per upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Mocchi

こんにちは。

先週の投稿でお約束していた、調整後の強化に必要なアイテムの予定数量をお知らせします。

アイテムの必要数について
試練の難易度に見合うように調整を行った結果、それぞれの武器群における一段階目の必要数は以下の値で考えています。

• レリックウェポン：5個
• ミシックウェポン：3個
• エンピリアンウェポン：60個

※二段階目については、引き続き慎重な検討を行っており、具体的な内容がお伝えできるようになり次第改めてお知らせします。

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Way to go SE, lower the trial that you already adjusted via 10x zeni points, and leave the broken trial broken. Now one person, presuming they have jettons stored up, can have all the zeni farmed up in 20 game days, and complete all the legwork on their own, and rally troops for PW...but this trial gets lowered to 3 PW items. Emps trial was always fine.

And yet the relic trial is still fn dumb as a rock, but hey, atleast now instead of 18 people wasting 1 month for one persons relic, its just one week of raping everyone of their potential dynamis time. Except as of the 2011 vanadiel census, there were 2965 lv90 relics, and 336 lv90 mythics. I'm pretty sure that number of relics has atleast doubled with the changes to dynamis, whereas alexandrite still fall from the sky like snow in africa. So even if a group of 18 people all have one relic each, thats still 18 weeks to upgrade everyones relic to 99, a number unrivaled (in a bad way) compared to mythic/emp trials.

Someone 2boxing can literally do all the legwork for PW, and then rally the troops for 1 hour. They can farm up all the zeni, do all the NM's to get PW pops, hold 2 PW pops and leave a third on the NPC ready for pickup. So you're requiring the help of 17 people for a mere hour. The dynamis trial, the pop NM's for ADL (despite pchan's retarded claims) arent exactly 2boxable, meaning you will require additional help for them, and ADL is a luck based fight...but I'm repeating all these facts now. basically for relic trial you need the help of 17 others, for 7 days (unless you pick the right ADL every time), at 2 hours a day. Mythic trial: work at your own pace then require assistance of 17 manhours. Relic trial: assistance of 238 manhours. There is no balance in this at all.

You wanted the trial difficulty to be Mythics>relics>emps? Its STILL Mythics=Emps>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>relics. Just because relics require 5 items and emps require 60, it doesnt make the emp trial exponentially harder when the 60 items are going to possibly be generated multiple times per day by anyone on the server willing to fight rex/alima (content that CAN be farmed by anyone at any time of the day with the only requirement being having someone with the relevant KI and having voidstones at your disposal)


In short:
You have fixed NOTHING

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Originally Posted by Arcon

And don't even start with "nothing but Dynamis for a year", this is a 2h event. Even the most casual of players will be able to find a LS they can join regularly for this.

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A large majority of people don't want to do Dynamis everyday for a year. Simply doing Dynamis everday a week is already like 15 Hours/week. 14 Hours of Dynar + 1 Hour of Gathering Together/Random time wastes.

Personally, I don't want to have to take on a Part-time job to have to complete all of the relics in my LS; I want to complete all the relics in the shell, but not this way... :/

And so what if people did solo Dynamis entirely to get their Relic? They are still entitled to get the 99 Stage 1 version, but because these people probably lack a linkshell that could take on ADL, they are essentially screwed from finishing their weapon right from the start. Buying the five Umbral Marrows is no justification for an alternative either; that's just stupid.

SE switch your trials, to 1 each or make them drop off regular DL like the relics should be. You really are risking losing your player base.

If anyones curious, I think the JP Are almost as PO'd as we are.

I'm pretty sure i saw the words "Half Baked" used.

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Originally Posted by Creelo

Honestly, I feel like them adding the Umbral Marrow, etc. into circulation before the trials were actually released was just a trap for the playerbase and a pathetic justification for them to not change the true trials.

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Even if that is true, it doesn't justify the stage 1 since that is what most are talking about. Just to get stage 1 done, people will still have to fight ADL and the item that drops is still used for stage 2. In all honesty this doesn't hinder stage 2 (rather opposite for those who want to do it) since people would just need kills instead of items then items again from the same damn mob.