Job Vision: Watch paint dry

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Get started, because I hate dumbing my posts down this much.

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But you are so good at it though. I mean look, Melee only SMN is probably the dumbest post ever. Right next to beating Ukon WAR and only Emp Staff has unlimited MP posts too.

Wouldn't it theoretically be possible to perform your backline duties (Curing, -na's, Etc) on some mobs while still Meleeing? I mean, Typical Exp Mob A) Dies at decent past, no Silence-AoEs, No horrible AoEs period, Isn't it still possible in that situation to melee and perform your backline tasks, without running of dying/etc?

Meh, whats his name has been saying this so its more or less talking in circles. I think what i'm trying to say is you can do both, But i truly agree Razushu, In reality its more about convincing your party your damage is worth it (really in an exp alliance who cares). Outside of exp though i can't speak on it.

I'd like to run a Melee-SMN parse like someone did a Melee-RDM parse in that one thread, just to truly see where it stands. You would have to count the Avatar, to be frank its a part of the job, just like Automatons to PUPs, and Jugs to BSTs!

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I'd like to run a Melee-SMN parse like someone did a Melee-RDM parse in that one thread, just to truly see where it stands. You would have to count the Avatar, to be frank its a part of the job, just like Automatons to PUPs, and Jugs to BSTs!

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It would be fun indeed, though you basically need an empyrean staff to be able to tell how far off Dallas is.

Actually, as crazy as this sounds, One of my good SMN friends (well, my GF, yay sani :3) Is working on that Staff. We figured it'd be fun to do.

We'll try to get her to the 85 sometime and try this out. She owns a Zelus Tiara and other basic gear, saddly her SMN ASA pants are used for Elemental Siphon Atm, Doubt she'd change it... She doesn't have perfect Melee gear either so its a toss up.

I'm going to try and parse it though, No doubt, just to see exactly how far behind it falls. I'll probably parse it against my THF, WAR, MNK, and maybe something like my DRK and PUP, just to see where it stands against each one.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Wouldn't it theoretically be possible to perform your backline duties (Curing, -na's, Etc) on some mobs while still Meleeing? I mean, Typical Exp Mob A) Dies at decent past, no Silence-AoEs, No horrible AoEs period, Isn't it still possible in that situation to melee and perform your backline tasks, without running of dying/etc?

Meh, whats his name has been saying this so its more or less talking in circles. I think what i'm trying to say is you can do both, But i truly agree Razushu, In reality its more about convincing your party your damage is worth it (really in an exp alliance who cares). Outside of exp though i can't speak on it.

I'd like to run a Melee-SMN parse like someone did a Melee-RDM parse in that one thread, just to truly see where it stands. You would have to count the Avatar, to be frank its a part of the job, just like Automatons to PUPs, and Jugs to BSTs!

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Yes and BSTs and PUPs both also have to prove themselves to be good frontline DDs before pets are counted. They are invited to groups as DDs because the master is also a good source of damage, otherwise they would be backline only and use the pet to do the bulk of the work. Pets count as part of the job and are counted when deciding if the job is contributing well as a whole. But when deciding they're a worthwhile melee or not it's different, the master needs to perform well as a standalone melee.

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Originally Posted by Razushu

Yes and BSTs and PUPs both also have to prove themselves to be good frontline DDs before pets are counted. They are invited to groups as DDs because the master is also a good source of damage, otherwise they would be backline only and use the pet to do the bulk of the work. Pets count as part of the job and are counted when deciding if the job is contributing well as a whole. But when deciding they're a worthwhile melee or not it's different, the master needs to perform well as a standalone melee.

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Its the reason i really wanna see how far back SMN stands through a parse or something similar. MATHS would work as well though

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Its the reason i really wanna see how far back SMN stands through a parse or something similar. MATHS would work as well though

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That's fair enough, sorry I misunderstood your post.

Only maths I've seen on the subject puts a SMN melee at about 1/4 of a WAR.

Remember to compare WAR with staff vs SMN with staff too. I'm quite certain the only reason WAR is so far ahead, is their WS selection.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Remember to compare WAR with staff vs SMN with staff too. I'm quite certain the only reason WAR is so far ahead, is their WS selection.

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That honestly is desperate grasping, and I wouldn't have expected it from you. Why on earth would the WAR use a staff? The reason the WAR is so far ahead is because it's a DD class. There is no trick there it was a SMN with it's best melee weapon vs a WAR with the same, recieving the same buffs. The WAR is ahead because it was designed as a DD with, armor choices, jas, stats, and traits designed to make it one of the most physically imposing job classes in the game. Comparing SMN to a WAR as a melee and expecting the SMN to even place, is like backing a bucket of KFC in a cockfight. You will be disappointed.

Haven't we already decided that tying one's arm behind one's back is not the ideal solution to a problem or comparison in an MMORPG?

@Razushu: Haha, couldn't have said it better myself.