Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

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Originally Posted by Arciel

quite happy to leave it at that. guess he can't do without anonymity..

which, on the same note, was exactly how lolCraftermath aka lolElementa operated. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, i wouldnt be so quick to assume Dallas is the same person.. but they're definitely in the same league of idiocy.

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Based on his writing i'm 99% positive its Craftermath >__>

Wait, I'm missing something.

Who the heck is Craftermath/Elementa?

Considering 95% of this thread was just Dallas saying LOLUKON and the rest of us saying LOLDALLAS I doubt that without him it will continue for very long.

Other than that one oddball, the rest of us seem to agree on most of the issues touched upon on this topic.

Emp/Relic/Mythic Staves (with the exception of Nirvana) offer different styles of gameplay, but in no way are comparable to their TotM counterparts.

Maybe someday (95/99) BLM and SCH Mythics will out do TotM staves for nuking, but until Relic/Emp staves get some kind of perp-, enmity reduction (would have to be cap breaking, which is a huge possibility with how Burtgang and Aegis work), or Elemental Affinity Bonus (Or simply GIANT numbers of MAB - Easily over 25 from the amount of damage bonus Elemental Affinity Staves give) they just don't make the cut.

On the BLM staff I could see maybe Double Casting, like what's seen in other FF games (Cast two spells at once) or on the SCH staff MP cost reduction (up to 50% like what's common in other FF games). Relic Staff seems to be going down a lonely road to complete and utter uselessness though.

I can't see anything ever beating Nirvana though, and it's only getting better.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

I can't see anything ever beating Nirvana though, and it's only getting better.

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A Staff that does double damage to BPs. Like +2 Caller's Set, but more often and separate from the set (so you can have a chance to do quadruple damage). Only way to beat Nirvana.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

A Staff that does double damage to BPs. Like +2 Caller's Set, but more often and separate from the set (so you can have a chance to do quadruple damage). Only way to beat Nirvana.

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<_< well A staff that deals 58943 times damage would beat it too, but its just unlikely.

Although it only really reinforces my point, Nirvana rocks.

A lot of Mythic weapons are actually amazing, though under rated. Ryunohige90 is the only weapon to ever challenge Ukon90, almost beating it in DPS. Still, most are only a waste of time... However Nirvana doesn't fit into that category.

Well, Nirvana is pretty much the only staff that would make melee SMN viable. You got it all. The staff contains perp cost reduction (by a buttload). It contains MAB+ for magical BPs. It has Att+, Acc+, and Occasionally double attack + for not only the summoner, but the avatar also. Who wouldn't want their Garuda to do double attacks?

And, it doesn't limit you to a single WS that does 0 damage to maintain MP. You can do Garland of Bliss or Spirit Taker (and if you double attack Spirit Taker, that's even better!) (But I doubt the weapon works that way).

Err... I think Ryunohige may actually beat Ukon in a lot of situations. Even Conqueror may beat Ukon sometimes (pretty much the ultimate zerg weapon). Right now DD mythics for many jobs are very underrated compared to their damage potential. Not that it matters, because they're made of unobtainium.

The biggest problem for them is how precisely you need to time AM3 activation (AM3 doesn't overwrite AM3), which tends to leave you either without AM3 while trying to build TP to 300, or overTPing at 300TP. Ryunohige has it nice here, because of Spirit/Soul Jump (5x normal hit x~1.7 attacks/round = 170TP average), Meditate (60TP), and AM3 duration all approximately lining up timer-wise, which gives you a little wiggle room and lets you boost your TP as needed. Jump/High Jump recast merits let you just save the Spirit/Soul for after WS if you don't need their TP. They take a lot more effort to play than, say, Ukon though.

Tbqh, I'd definitely get one just because they sound fun to play. The real limitation for me is the 100k Ampuoles, non-spawning Beast Kings, and last 50k tokens I'm missing, though. I feel that I could make the gil for the Alexandrite before there's enough Alexandrite on the market for me to buy, let alone before I finish any of those other things.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/907...=1#post4666916

Well, to be quite honest as well, Hvergelmir isn't a bad weapon, even for SMN. It has its uses, and does in fact excel for meleeing. I'm of the belief that for anything <EM which is relatively safe to melee on, Hvergelmir will win out as the weapon of choice for MP longevity simply because of the sheer amount of MP you're able to get back without much difficulty, which is better than Spirit Taker as well because it isn't accuracy reliant and nets you consistent MP returns without fail.

But anything harder than you, a SMN really shouldn't be meleeing, and so ultimately, Hvergelmir fails as a weapon even for its best use (MP regen) in challenging situations. Because in principle a SMN isn't going to be meleeing, theres really nothing to compare in terms of damage numbers - they're theoretical at best and have no practical use.

However, if we're talking about new/popular events, the Hvergelmir gets an extended lease of life. In Abyssea, you typically wouldn't even have MP issues but Hvergelmir (or that other Myrkr weapon) will give you the option to swap out MM for a regain atma should you so need the TP for other uses as well (like idk, procs).

It shines in Voidwatch as well, because MP is indeed an issue and players aren't always going to get regular procs to replenish their temp item supply. A Hvergelmir effectively converts a Dusty Wing into something like an Ether, which is useful in such events, but pretty much as a swap in piece.

I'm working on both Hvergelmir and Nirvana right now and must say.. getting a Hvergelmir is ridiculously easy because no one wants the items required to make the staff. I started about a week back - doing Sedna first cos its easier to solo with BST - and had people giving me Tusks left and right... also have like 10+ Kukulkan Fangs and all were given to me.
Suffice to say it isn't hard at all to make a functional (one that can use Myrkr) Hvergelmir to use as a fun tool for EP solo play and as a TP converter..

As for Nirvana, almost 2/5 done on Assault reclears and working on znm trophies. building reserves for alex too but other than these 3 things im done.. so.. gonna soldier on and hope the 'changes to toau' will affect this positively

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I'm working on both Hvergelmir and Nirvana right now and must say.. getting a Hvergelmir is ridiculously easy because no one wants the items required to make the staff. I started about a week back - doing Sedna first cos its easier to solo with BST - and had people giving me Tusks left and right... also have like 10+ Kukulkan Fangs and all were given to me.
Suffice to say it isn't hard at all to make a functional (one that can use Myrkr) Hvergelmir to use as a fun tool for EP solo play and as a TP converter..

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I never considered the "giving" path. Maybe it would actually work. Do you just catch pickup groups going for atmas and wins?

Personally, I end up with random popsets for stuff like Sedna and Kukulkan and hand them off to the 1-2 people I know that are trying to make the staff whenever we can get enough people together to kill them. I think I've contributed at least 10 fangs towards one of my friend's staves, and probably close to 20 towards staves overall. Also gave away Azdaja horns, Sedna tusks, etc. If I know people are going to do it, I tell him so he can come lot.