Alex Supply and Salvage Cheating- Accounts Not Banned?

Cool, so if I rob a bank, when you catch me the bank doesn't get any money back, I don't go to jail, and I get to keep all the ill- gotten booty. Good to know. Sooooo what is the point of having rules again?

Time to go start cheating, there's no reason to not do so, now!

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Originally Posted by dasva

But what if it is vanilla windower that just does the same thing as SEs official windowed mode except is less resource intensive? Is it really cheating if there is no in game advantage gained? Then what about the other advantages that windower addons have that SE is adding/has added to the game? It's clear that SE approves of a lot of the things the windower team has developed so would those really still be cheating just because you used a different version of it?

According to the definition of cheat no it wouldn't

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There are some things vanilla FFXI can't do AFAIK.

1) Shitty macro, Gear Set system is nearly unusable so I still use 2 click macro for many sets that requires fast swapping.

2) Dual box, you need 2 PC or 1 PC 1 console if you need to play multiple character without windower. Personally I can't afford 2 PC and I don't have a console version, so I can't dual box. That means I can't farm plasm/gil as fast as dual box players.

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Originally Posted by Louispv

Cool, so if I rob a bank, when you catch me the bank doesn't get any money back, I don't go to jail, and I get to keep all the ill- gotten booty. Good to know. Sooooo what is the point of having rules again?

Time to go start cheating, there's no reason to not do so, now!

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If you go by SE's response then your "punishment" for robbing a bank would be not being allowed in that bank for 3 days.

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Originally Posted by Louispv

Time to go start cheating, there's no reason to not do so, now!

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I feel I would lose a lot of self-respect and honour if I started cheating. That's a good enough reason for me.


I agree with your post though, about how its wrong that they get away with this perfidious brigandry. Cheating a system devalues the system itself, it makes the system less attractive to other users who do not cheat. One should only cheat a system that one wishes to devalue and cause harm to, because that is the inevitable corrosive effect that cheating has on all systems.

if nobody quit over this(and by the looks of this thread, none of the outspoken people have), they gained a net amount of subs vs permabanning

SE is a business, they don't care that you're offended as long as you keep paying

want them to listen, stage a 'mass' 10 day deactivation with all 15 people who are gravely affronted by this injustice

It's funny to see the people that abused these things and got a laughable punishment now using those same tools in other areas.

They don't even try to hide it, I've watched them using them brazenly. The sad part is, I don't even bother reporting them now because nothing will happen anyway.

I'm not really offended. There are lowlife untrustworthy people in the real world, and in the online world too. Including online games. I don't walk around the real world being offended or staging 'protests' just because there are some people out there who don't know right from wrong. I just get on with my life, which is what I do in FFXI despite all the cheats.

I play FFXI because I'm a big fan of FF games dating back two decades, other people cheating in XI doesn't change my respect for Square or the FF series, so why would I protest? But this being a forum, with a thread about cheating, I'm a chatty person and sometimes like to post stuff on forums lol. My feelings are that cheating is sleazy and if a system is infested with cheats then that lowers the market value of that system in the eyes of normal people who like to play fair.

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

Cheating is cheating. I don't care if you jaywalk or rob a bank, you've still done the wrong thing.

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Only people that would make that argument are people that abused this exploit or have friends that did, it's a way to play down blatant cheating they did.

As I say, what you're saying is as stupid as a bank robber trying to get off by saying the jury jaywalked so can't judge him. Whole other level.

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When I first brought up Windower, my point was what Hoshi said: "Cheating is cheating." They should obviously have (very) different punishments, but they are both against the ToS and SE CAN ban both types of offenders if they wanted to. The big difference here compared to the RL example is that SE doesn't have a set punishment for a given offense (at least that I've seen). But in the RL situation there are punishment guidelines.

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Originally Posted by dasva

But what if it is vanilla windower that just does the same thing as SEs official windowed mode except is less resource intensive? Is it really cheating if there is no in game advantage gained? Then what about the other advantages that windower addons have that SE is adding/has added to the game? It's clear that SE approves of a lot of the things the windower team has developed so would those really still be cheating just because you used a different version of it?

According to the definition of cheat no it wouldn't

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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cheating?s=t

"to violate rules or regulations:"

The rule being no use of 3rd party programs. By using Windower you are violating that rule, therefore cheating. Doesn't matter what the extent is that you use it.

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

Furthermore the biggest thing that is keeping the average player out of a pickup group is not the lack of a mythic weapon, it's the fact that the group needs X job and you don't have it. Most times I see shouts, they are only looking for R/E brd, R rng, R/E pld, and some sort of mage (a stunner or a healer). Regardless of if you had a mythic DD you would not be invited to join that shout.

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Agreed. I wish they'd revitalize Voidwatch since that was one event where every job was welcome. I feel sorry for all the BLMs that are only wanted for Skirmish these days.

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Originally Posted by Safiyyah

[B]While there are a few rare/ex pieces that each job needs, you still need substantial amounts of gil for the following non-mythic items, just for starters:

AF1/AF2 119 gear
Skirmish augment items +2
Empyrean weapon, last 3 stages
Relic weapon, entirely
New HQ stat rings
HQ food

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-Some of the mats for AF upgrades are expensive, but you're also making money to buy them from the drops from the SKC20 BCs when you get papers.

-You only have to buy a lot of these if you want the highest tier augments. Plus you can get these easily by doing Skirmish.

-If you're using these to upgrade anything other than Harp past 90 then you're wasting your time/money. Plus it's only the last 2 stages (Plates and Cinders/Dross). I do think that the requirement needs to be adjusted now that VW isn't nearly as popular anymore.

-Relic Weapons can be farmed in 3 months (likely less now) by going to Dynamis daily. 0 gil required here unless you want to speed it up.

-No one is going to turn you away from a party/event because you don't have HQ Rings.

-NQ food works just fine. Most HQ food offers minimal benefits over the NQ.

EDIT: Yes having gil speeds all those things up, there's no denying that.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

All this for probably mythics that are are not yagrush !

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Says the guy that Afterglowed Spharai. lol

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Originally Posted by Pixela

It's funny to see the people that abused these things and got a laughable punishment now using those same tools in other areas.

They don't even try to hide it, I've watched them using them brazenly. The sad part is, I don't even bother reporting them now because nothing will happen anyway.

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This was my biggest concern about the offenders only getting the 3-day suspension. :(

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Originally Posted by Comeatmebro

if nobody quit over this(and by the looks of this thread, none of the outspoken people have), they gained a net amount of subs vs permabanning

SE is a business, they don't care that you're offended as long as you keep paying

want them to listen, stage a 'mass' 10 day deactivation with all 15 people who are gravely affronted by this injustice

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By your logic they shouldn't ban RMT ever, since RMT often create 10+ or 100+ accounts, but there aren't many ppl that would really rage quit over RMT.

Thus SE should let RMT exist because it's extra sub with RMT in game.

In reality, SE did ban RMT. So I don't think they make choice to ban account based on short term profit.

you're crazy if you think this had anywhere near the impact of a 100-char rmt operation

a rmt with 100 hak-bots(pre-nerfs) is throwing 150-200m/day into the economy and drastically lowering the value of people's saved gil, as well as short term nuking the availability of anything buyable.. banning them increases the stability and longevity of the ingame economy

the result of this exploit is just some gil getting funneled around.. the amount of gil in the economy remains unchanged and the amount of alex in the economy will reset over the next couple weeks because once turned in it's gone and lost forever

someone picking up the game today is no worse off than they would have been if this hadn't ever happened, you can't say the same of mass rmt