[DEV 1135] RDM 2 HOUR

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Originally Posted by Mageoholic

Garbage ability, for garbage spells. Whatever happened to the Enhancing Magic buff (like soul voice) now that is worthy of being used as a 2hour. SE why you no like RDM?

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I have a theory on that. Remember when the Dev's ask if we'd like the cap to go to 99 or 100. And most of the NA player base went off the 100 cap to gain access to some extra JA and spells. Which in turn the Dev's came back and said no because that wasn't the intent they were looking for. Well that could apply here as well. As the SP original intent might have been to give RDM an edge in survival with enhanced buff's. And by the time it got to us, we were all looking at the bigger picture of using it via accession to transfer stronger buffs to party members. Which in turn was something they didn't intend, so they decide to trash it for the one hit wonder enfeeble.

Now that's just a theory, but if you look at the history it makes sense. No one said it was a horrible idea, it just needed buffing to make it worth wild. Honestly I would have rather taken it as is than have the new one. I want enfeebling to work correctly before I have to blow a special timer just to guarantee landing it.

Difference is we couldn't really Accession many buffs like that, Pro, Shell, Phalanx, Stoneskin, Blink, and thats about it. Anything else is self target or non-Accessionable like Haste, Temper, Gain-everything, and so on.

True, but look at a spell like paralyze. The Dev's had treated that like a over powering spell that can make a fight lopsided in the player's favor......... It's paralyze, can you ever remember a time some one said thank god we had paralyze on that thing. It made it so much easier to beat?

Being the case, I'm sure they'd frown upon a super beef up phalanx in the same way. The thing is if they design mob's around an ideal damage which would make call for a buff like this to help a group to survive content. It would add greatly to the strategy of the combat. I would see it no different than content like VW where you constantly spam temp items to survive the fight. Except it would be more of a 1 shot deal.

Phalanx does not work in a way though that could be used in such a way. Phalanx becomes worthless on higher end content. Sure on lower powered mobs its amazing, it can completely null somethings damage, but even at double potency, which is -72 I believe is still nothing on current content where mobs hit for hundreds upon hundreds. Unless the damage a mob deals is 8 hits for 100 each, then yes Phalanx would be amazing, but few mobs have that kind of damage separation between hits so it really does not have that kinda effect.

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

I have a theory on that. Remember when the Dev's ask if we'd like the cap to go to 99 or 100. And most of the NA player base went off the 100 cap to gain access to some extra JA and spells. Which in turn the Dev's came back and said no because that wasn't the intent they were looking for. Well that could apply here as well. As the SP original intent might have been to give RDM an edge in survival with enhanced buff's. And by the time it got to us, we were all looking at the bigger picture of using it via accession to transfer stronger buffs to party members. Which in turn was something they didn't intend, so they decide to trash it for the one hit wonder enfeeble.

Now that's just a theory, but if you look at the history it makes sense. No one said it was a horrible idea, it just needed buffing to make it worth wild. Honestly I would have rather taken it as is than have the new one. I want enfeebling to work correctly before I have to blow a special timer just to guarantee landing it.

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It is a theory that is somewhat on the right track. But its not really about the job and its abilities/spells. It is about the base mechanics of those spells. Its the fact haste from a RDM shares the same value of /RDM, Its about Slow I and Slow II being really indifferent in terms of value, with slow I actually being better in terms of effect/cost (by over 2 times! 1.9 vs .82!) It is about the fact that despite its skill RDM has just as good a chance to enfeeble as a WHM a BLM or a SCH...for the same effect (unless you really think .4 seconds is worth 5 merits into slow II). Back at 75 RDM was really the only job capable of landing full effect spells, SCH could come close.

To remedy some things SE did the following.
Refresh is the same subbed...add Refresh II
Oh Slow I is the same across the board (Slow II sucks..) lets add a JA so RDM's can land 1 enfeeble every 5 minutes for increased potency! (if it lands at all.)

But this isn't new, they added the EnII spell line after they made enspells maintain casted values despite gear, making SCH the king of the enspell.

Now they want to add haste II because /RDM can cast a spell just as strong as RDM/!

It is out of control really, you can not just keep piling crap onto crap. The reason the gap exists is because SE has left the caps on from level 75. We are level 99 classes playing by level 75 rules. There should be no reason that I can provide the same benefits of my RDM, by going BRD/RDM. Actually more if you think about it because hey I am a BRD too.

As BRD/RDM I can.
Cap Haste!
Provide more refresh!
Land Enfeebling Procs because so much MACC gear for the same Cap as my RDM! (slow beats slow 2 in terms of effective value.)
Land BRD Procs

Essentially anything of value my RDM offers my BRD/RDM can do, and more.

This is a mechanics problem, not a job problem. SE needs to make enfeebling skill directly affect the % value of effectiveness, RDM needs to be able to exceed these % based caps. When dMND (and similar values) was hard to achieve and maintain land rate this approach worked...now any job with access to casting gear is as accurate and as potent as the next. Enfeebling skill must play a factor in the equation determining a % value increase. Enhancing needs to do this as well.

This is how you fix RDM, and these abilities and spells you keep adding on the base mechanics is nothing short of pandering. As long as a BRD/RDM can offer all it does, RDM will not be required based on the current state of enfeebling and enhancing magic mechanics.

I think one possibility is that the Development Bros will go back to the drawing board again and come back with something even worse than this 60 minute incarnation of Elemental Seal, after noting the roughly one trillion complaints produced over two days.

What could anyone possibly come up with that is worse than this, I wonder?

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I think one possibility is that the Development Bros will go back to the drawing board again and come back with something even worse than this 60 minute incarnation of Elemental Seal, after noting the roughly one trillion complaints produced over two days.

What could anyone possibly come up with that is worse than this, I wonder?

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Ok, I'll bite. Meconium affected our enhancing (and thus indirectly, our melee); the nameless turd affects our enfeebling; therefore, Red Mage SP33 1/3: The Final Insult will be a healing ability. In keeping with the "crib abilities belonging to other jobs, only worse" theme honed by Imminent Strikes and the nameless turd, it will be a low-rent version of Benediction that restores fewer HP and cures only status anomalies for which -na spells exist. In keeping with the "pointless sacrifice" theme established by such timeless gems of SP ability design like Mijin Gakure and the chocoburger, it will require the RDM to die and home point without a raise for full XP loss.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Phalanx does not work in a way though that could be used in such a way. Phalanx becomes worthless on higher end content. Sure on lower powered mobs its amazing, it can completely null somethings damage, but even at double potency, which is -72 I believe is still nothing on current content where mobs hit for hundreds upon hundreds. Unless the damage a mob deals is 8 hits for 100 each, then yes Phalanx would be amazing, but few mobs have that kind of damage separation between hits so it really does not have that kinda effect.

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RELEASE THE KRACKENS!!!
That's about it. RDM>Squids wooo

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Originally Posted by Hashmalum

Given that "completely resists" is immunity, and the initial dev post on the new RDM SP explicitly stated that immunity is still immunity, I'm assuming this is a bug.

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It probably is a bug, but it takes the ability for "completely worthless" to "would be useful with a lower reuse timer". Having RDMs being able to land debuffs that no one else can would be a nice addition if it wasn't on a 1 hour timer.

This new two hours should let RDMs access spells that are only available exclusively during the 2 hours. Similar how Blu has Unbridled Learning. This way, you can enfeeble mob with new spells, and with high potency, and it should land. I still do not understand the mentality of the developers. If they do not want us to use zerg strategy, they should let us use other ways. Enfeebling the NMs to death is never the ultimate strategy to win, well, except stun locking the mob - which we should never mentioned in the main thread. The thing is, every time we find a tried and true methods that works nicely, they end up being a total d@#$k and "adjust" it for the sake of BS balance to make sure we cannot win.