Is FFXI getting a cash shop?

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Originally Posted by Stompa

That feeling of 'being part of the FFXI grandeur' occurs when you log in and play FFXI. You don't have to pay extra money in a giftshop to have that feeling.

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That feeling is simply subjective. Some players feel the full feeling of grandeur is to have all elements to the product. Others simply feel it by being a part of it. This can be taken many different ways. Big business likes giving the consumer the option to taken on novelty items to give them that full effect. Yeah, it might cost a bit more money to obtain, but obviously a lot of people are OK with this.

Good example of this was when the mini-stories were released. SE made those add-ons purely independent of the main game. Yes, you can use the items they give you, but you didn't have to buy them at all. And infact, there was an up roar about those being looked at in the same light. "Why should I have to pay for more of something to keep up with the next person when I already pay you 12.99/month..." This is just the way SE has done business for years... It's nothing new.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

Also on "kill the game" some people in the player community have been saying "FFXI is dying" since early 2005. So I will really wait for an official SE announcement before I start thinking the game is dying or about to be killed.

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Never said the game was going to die soon. But that lack of player base really does make you wonder where it's going.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

Its worth remembering that FFXI has paid for FF14 to remain on life-support for such a long time. Not the other way around.

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True. Thank you for the reminder of older days. But may I remind you what is keeping FFxi a live to this day? Must be those hundreds of thousands of subscribers it has still.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/55731154.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Some players feel the full feeling of grandeur is to have all elements to the product. Others simply feel it by being a part of it. This can be taken many different ways.

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You get "the elements to the product" by "simply being a part of it."

In the quote above you have chosen to separate playing the game and obtaining items from that game. But this is your predilection, and has no bearing on the nature of gaming.

Role-playing games have been around since the 1970s, computergames started shortly after. RPG and other games have always been about playing the game in order to make progress. The concept of playing the game to make progress is a 30+ year old concept. The concept of just paying money for progress is a new concept by comparison.

FFXI is a very unique game, it has charted hitherto unsailed waters, being the first seriously popular long running mainstream RPG, which retains a lot of the old RPG values. There are no maps for where FFXI has travelled, or is going to travel. That is because it is sailing alone on uncharted seas. Therefor speculation on its fate is just that - speculation. We can't look back on the history of games and compare FFXI to other games, because no other game has done what FFXI did, and continues to do.

I have already agreed that things like Tidal and Moogle cap etc. would be nice additions for new players or players who missed the original purchase. I have no problem with shops for fun gift items. I have a problem with shops selling progress, or currency, or items that people have poured years of effort into obtaining. You are skating around that issue a lot, you seem to want to be able to buy HQ gear or progress from a cash shop, but you are very obtuse and vague about this. I would say that this is contra to the FFXI adventurer spirit and roleplaying culture, which is about working towards goals with likeminded adventurers, not just clicking a BUY button in a cash shop.
:cool:

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Originally Posted by Stompa

You get "the elements to the product" by "simply being a part of it."

In the quote above you have chosen to separate playing the game and obtaining items from that game. But this is your predilection, and has no bearing on the nature of gaming.

Role-playing games have been around since the 1970s, computergames started shortly after. RPG and other games have always been about playing the game in order to make progress. The concept of playing the game to make progress is a 30+ year old concept. The concept of just paying money for progress is a new concept by comparison.

FFXI is a very unique game, it has charted hitherto unsailed waters, being the first seriously popular long running mainstream RPG, which retains a lot of the old RPG values. There are no maps for where FFXI has travelled, or is going to travel. That is because it is sailing alone on uncharted seas. Therefor speculation on its fate is just that - speculation. We can't look back on the history of games and compare FFXI to other games, because no other game has done what FFXI did, and continues to do.

I have already agreed that things like Tidal and Moogle cap etc. would be nice additions for new players or players who missed the original purchase. I have no problem with shops for fun gift items. I have a problem with shops selling progress, or currency, or items that people have poured years of effort into obtaining. You are skating around that issue a lot, you seem to want to be able to buy HQ gear or progress from a cash shop, but you are very obtuse and vague about this. I would say that this is contra to the FFXI adventurer spirit and roleplaying culture, which is about working towards goals with likeminded adventurers, not just clicking a BUY button in a cash shop.
:cool:

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I don't even know where to start with the above history lesson you are trying to give me. Where there are some points to your argument, there also seems to be some points missing from the same timeline and overall business you are trying to defend. I won't go into detail here as it would be too long of a response. Just know that FFxi is not the first to do A LOT of what it has here.

As for me walking a fine line... Is that not what we are suppose to do when asking questions? I have made no insinuations of adding a F2P or P2W game mechanic. I have simply stated it would be neat to have a cash shop and what else they might add to it. The thought of adding additional items such as ingame currency and such was an idea to play around with. Take it as you will. Just remember, assuming makes an ass of u and me.

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

I don't even know where to start with the above history lesson you are trying to give me. Where there are some points to your argument, there also seems to be some points missing from the same timeline and overall business you are trying to defend. I won't go into detail here as it would be too long of a response. Just know that FFxi is not the first to do A LOT of what it has here.

As for me walking a fine line... Is that not what we are suppose to do when asking questions? I have made no insinuations of adding a F2P or P2W game mechanic. I have simply stated it would be neat to have a cash shop and what else they might add to it. The thought of adding additional items such as ingame currency and such was an idea to play around with. Take it as you will. Just remember, assuming makes an ass of u and me.

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Just know that FFxi is not the first to do A LOT of what it has here.

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No FFXI wasn't the first, but it is the longest running single game in the true RPG style, which is mainstream and popular. Other RPG games have had games-series spanning decades, but not a single game running this long and being mainstream / popular.

FFXI was not the first, the first was D&d tabletop pens paper dice games in the 1970s. They had statistics and jobs etc. which FFXI borrowed heavily from. I played Dungeon Master for the first time in 1980, for a tabletop roleplaying group. Four of our original D&d group from 1980 are still playing tabletop roleplaying, and I still sit as Dungeon Master for them, after 34 years. One of the things about sitting as DM is that you learn to respect Rules, Balance, Fair Play, and trying to keep the game atmospheric and playable for a long time. These things are ingrained into me and are the reason why talk of a FFXI gear shop fills me with dread.

I did not allow our roleplaying group to treat me like a Cash Shop, and pay me $10 when they wanted to level up or obtain a powerful weapon. If I had tried to do this, the people buying stuff would have got bored quickly, and the rest of the group would have quit the group in disgust, and probably punched me on the way out of the door too. But because progress was orderly and fair and effort/skill based, our RPG group still plays after all this time, and we have great fun doing so.

Square Enix is the Dungeon Master for the FFXI roleplaying game, they are expected to uphold rules and fairness and maintain an atmospheric and exciting journey, just like Dungeon Masters have done since the 1970s.

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I don't even know where to start with the above history lesson you are trying to give me

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I wasn't giving you a history lesson. I was replying to your post, by citing examples to show how "cash shops" are very new and have no "track record." We can list many popular and successful games of the last 30+ years which existed without cash shops and where players had to play the game long time to make progress. Those games were successful and popular for decades, and we can show this historically.

Cash shop games are fairly new and have very little track record. We cannot say what the long-term effects of cash shops will be in those games. We can however say that people are still re-playing old games from the 1980s and 1990s, games which were successful and popular without a cash shop, and may well have been dead and buried long time ago if they'd had a cash shop.

:cool:

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Originally Posted by Stompa

No FFXI wasn't the first, but it is the longest running single game in the true RPG style, which is mainstream and popular. Other RPG games have had games-series spanning decades, but not a single game running this long and being mainstream / popular.

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Hate to pop your bubble... Oh what am I say, I love popping your bubble. You might want to look at this link. http://www.gamingclimax.com/mmorpg-a...d-the-longest/

You might want to reconsider your train of thought. To think that FFxi is the longest running RPG style, which is mainstream and popular, is almost delusional.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

FFXI was not the first, the first was D&d tabletop pens paper dice games in the 1970s. They had statistics and jobs etc. which FFXI borrowed heavily from. I played Dungeon Master for the first time in 1980, for a tabletop roleplaying group. Four of our original D&d group from 1980 are still playing tabletop roleplaying, and I still sit as Dungeon Master for them, after 34 years. One of the things about sitting as DM is that you learn to respect Rules, Balance, Fair Play, and trying to keep the game atmospheric and playable for a long time. These things are ingrained into me and are the reason why talk of a FFXI gear shop fills me with dread.

I did not allow our roleplaying group to treat me like a Cash Shop, and pay me $10 when they wanted to level up or obtain a powerful weapon. If I had tried to do this, the people buying stuff would have got bored quickly, and the rest of the group would have quit the group in disgust, and probably punched me on the way out of the door too. But because progress was orderly and fair and effort/skill based, our RPG group still plays after all this time, and we have great fun doing so.

Square Enix is the Dungeon Master for the FFXI roleplaying game, they are expected to uphold rules and fairness and maintain an atmospheric and exciting journey, just like Dungeon Masters have done since the 1970s.

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There you go again with the history lesson. Relating DnD to FFxi is like relating DnD to every known RPG in existence. Obviously DnD of old did not have a cash shop... you're comparing apples to oranges. If you want to play DnD so much, stop with FFxi and go jump on DnD 5.0, which sucks more balls than anything else out there.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

I wasn't giving you a history lesson. I was replying to your post, by citing examples to show how "cash shops" are very new and have no "track record." We can list many popular and successful games of the last 30+ years which existed without cash shops and where players had to play the game long time to make progress. Those games were successful and popular for decades, and we can show this historically.

Cash shop games are fairly new and have very little track record. We cannot say what the long-term effects of cash shops will be in those games. We can however say that people are still re-playing old games from the 1980s and 1990s, games which were successful and popular without a cash shop, and may well have been dead and buried long time ago if they'd had a cash shop.

:cool:

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You can call it what you will, history lesson or citing old concepts and business models, you are still referring to something that is in the past.

Obviously cash shops are new. They have only been around for the last 4 years or so. With the mobile/social markets thriving at the moment, companies are finding ways to give consumers products they enjoy. Even MMOs, which are social by nature, are looking into adding shops with similar products.

Yes, some are pay-to-win type games and they have their own nitch. But as I have stated before, I did not say they should add any of those types of products to the catalog.

And lastly, DAMN Stompa... you old... Good to see old retired people still play MMOs.

http://rs1img.memecdn.com/Cool-story-bro_o_94023.webp

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Good example of this was when the mini-stories were released. SE made those add-ons purely independent of the main game. Yes, you can use the items they give you, but you didn't have to buy them at all. And infact, there was an up roar about those being looked at in the same light. "Why should I have to pay for more of something to keep up with the next person when I already pay you 12.99/month..." This is just the way SE has done business for years... It's nothing new.

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I dont know why you take this as an example, paying 12,99 for an add-on isnt exactly the same as buying a mount (I dont know what it costs but i thought it was around the rediculous price of 24 in the ffxiv cashshop) the add-ons when they were released for lvl75 content did give you a nice bit of missioning to do. You werent getting the reward if you didnt complete the storyline.

Personally the bottomline for me is that we pay for a product and we expect everything is in that product, I dont want SE to throw extras out there in a cashshop while we already pay quite a bit for an 11 years old game knowing its not going to go back into xi. Its like milking an old cow.

PS. Calling people retarded on here is really low, your point would sound alot more valid if you could discuss in a civilized manner.

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Originally Posted by vienne

I dont know why you take this as an example, paying 12,99 for an add-on isnt exactly the same as buying a mount (I dont know what it costs but i thought it was around the rediculous price of 24 in the ffxiv cashshop) the add-ons when they were released for lvl75 content did give you a nice bit of missioning to do. You werent getting the reward if you didnt complete the storyline.

Personally the bottomline for me is that we pay for a product and we expect everything is in that product, I dont want SE to throw extras out there in a cashshop while we already pay quite a bit for an 11 years old game knowing its not going to go back into xi. Its like milking an old cow.

PS. Calling people retarded on here is really low, your point would sound alot more valid if you could discuss in a civilized manner.

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Why wouldn't it be an excellent example. It was around the same time they were testing out cash shop mechanics anyways.

I remember buying the addons and completing the content in three days, one day for each addon. There was no challenge, there was no special twist to the world, other than Shantoto, and the items awarded were Huge when gained. Which forces the need to buy the addons. Otherwise you'd feel left out and behind for not having the BiS piece.

So yeah, I think the addons are a great example for this discussion as they were an attempt at what is currently on topic.

PS.
http://rs1img.memecdn.com/no-dark-sa..._c_3376349.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Why wouldn't it be an excellent example. It was around the same time they were testing out cash shop mechanics anyways.

I remember buying the addons and completing the content in three days, one day for each addon. There was no challenge, there was no special twist to the world, other than Shantoto, and the items awarded were Huge when gained. Which forces the need to buy the addons. Otherwise you'd feel left out and behind for not having the BiS piece.

So yeah, I think the addons are a great example for this discussion as they were an attempt at what is currently on topic.

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the addons included new storylines, challenges, and a reward that actually required playing the game to get. This wasnt as grand as a full expansion pack, but was an addition to the game in a meaningful way.

MMOs these days would rather take the gear from these expacs, strip the stats from them, and sell them for $10 a piece. These MMOs can also !$%# right off.

You are clearly a terrible person though, so I'm not sure why I'm responding.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

You are clearly a terrible person though, so I'm not sure why I'm responding.

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Clearly. :D

I'd be more worried about yourself than what you thought of me. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Clearly. :D

I'd be more worried about yourself than what you thought of me. :cool:

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me? I'm fine