I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

"To have her father's breastplate repaired by Ranchuriome, Miaux needs you to find an Altepa polishing stone."

That's right, boys and girls: your job is to go out into a desert that spans two zones and find a particular rock in a sea of rocks. Good luck!

EDIT: And this is only after you happen to meet the stringent requirements necessary to flag this quest to begin with!

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Client
Mamaulabion (Near the Auction House, Norg)
Summary
Mamaulabion would like you to bring him any "thuper-dee-duper, overflowing with thpethial power itemth" you happen to come across in your travels. However, he was not able to provide you with any details on their whereabouts.

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http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Mama_Mia

We're taking it to a whole new level: now it's not only the desert you have to look, it's the entire world, and you need 7 different items from completely different locations!

Remember: he gives you absolutely no hints at all what they are or where they are from. The NPC only exists for this purpose, and he has zero relation to anyone else nor the avatars.

What's the reward? Who knows! Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

"To have her father's breastplate repaired by Ranchuriome, Miaux needs you to find an Altepa polishing stone."

That's right, boys and girls: your job is to go out into a desert that spans two zones and find a particular rock in a sea of rocks. Good luck!

EDIT: And this is only after you happen to meet the stringent requirements necessary to flag this quest to begin with!

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It's not a "enjoyable" design for you not to have ! on the map, but it's not a "flawed" design. I'm talking about the terminology of game design, not personal prefernece.

You can argue that the design can be improved if NPC gives more hint in the dialogue, while keeping the existing direction, which I agree. But pop-up window or have ! on the map hand-holding is completely different design direction.

1. Crap like this was clearly done to sell guide books
2. BradyGames hasn't seen fit to sell an English-language guide since 2005
3. Yet crap like this persists 9 years later
4. Ergo, the game is flawed

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

1. Crap like this was clearly done to sell guide books
2. BradyGames hasn't seen fit to sell an English-language guide since 2005
3. Yet crap like this persists 9 years later
4. Ergo, the game is flawed

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And there you also have the real reason there wasn't an official windowed mode for so long.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

And there you also have the real reason there wasn't an official windowed mode for so long.

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meaning now that there is a official window mode and can look up the information. S.E has fixed that issue.

btw they still make brady/prima guides? between the internet and well lolbrady guides i think they would of went out of business by now. i guess have an actually publication would be nice for nostalgia if quality. well always cool reading about your games, as some guides were nicely written and detailed.

as afania said. it can be improved in dialogue. however, any thing more than that is the player lacking any sense of adventure.

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Originally Posted by OKOA

QFT.

So much honesty.

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Nope, I enjoyed White Mage, I enjoyed Blue Mage, I enjoyed Dark Knight, I enjoyed Paladin, I enjoyed Corsair, I enjoyed PUP, I enjoyed Geomancer, I enjoyed Dancer and I enjoyed Scholar. Did I make a mistake?

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Originally Posted by Draylo

Why do people like you exist? Quit and go to WoW already.

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Like the posts on other forums, they exist to constantly remind people how bad the game they play is and won't quit. They'll also continually try to tell you you're wrong for enjoying this game or if you find anything good about it.

However they keep paying SE to do so, so don't even worry about it.

you know what is the point? really? 90 percent of these quests have no really baring on the game progression. Fame? can be easily capped.

you want S.E to spend the next 6 months to a year on 3 updates going to 10000's lines of code and change quests that dont mean anything. really stop trying to make point when you dont even realize what you want or what your suggestion implies

you want to complain for S.E to improve the game then focus on the bigger picture. S.E doesnt have the ability to turn out any decent size update like they have in the past and even then the task was too great.

want the newer playerbase to enjoy the game? reforge lower level content and give back level base content. bcnms, nation missions, and make real endgame quality/diffucultty events at lower levels. like eco warrior - an event that caps you at a level as you zone. which will require all that useless AH Gear to be revived. helping both 99 players and the level 10/20/30/40/50 noob.

give the endgame playerbase reason to go back to lower levels and play with others.

the real issue here is abyssea xp and the death of 6 man parties.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

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Originally Posted by Camiie

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Originally Posted by Draylo

You also chose the wrong job if you wanted to jump right into the current end game content. That would be better done on BRD or COR instead of SMN.

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He probably made the same mistake many new players make. He likely chose a job he thought he'd actually enjoy.

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Nope, I enjoyed White Mage, I enjoyed Blue Mage, I enjoyed Dark Knight, I enjoyed Paladin, I enjoyed Corsair, I enjoyed PUP, I enjoyed Geomancer, I enjoyed Dancer and I enjoyed Scholar. Did I make a mistake?

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You completely missed the point of the counterargument.

Let me try to explain how I took it at very least, maybe then you will understand it as I do.

A new player joined the game, they leveled to 30, unlocked SMN, and then did all of the work involved in getting SMN the things it needs, all the Avatars, some decent perp gear, the Ring, all that. Now, after putting this work in, the player can not play their job in a party in the content they wish to do, why? Simple, SMN is not useful, they picked the 'wrong job' to level, a 'mistake' they made when they chose SMN because they did not level something like the aforementioned suggestion of BRD or COR, jobs which are seen as useful whereas SMN is not. You picked jobs like WHM, DRK, COR, GEO, and SCH, so congratulations, you get an internet cookie, you picked jobs people will invite and accept in their party.

The thing is, not everyone wants to play a large range of jobs, get stuck on jobs they don't like or don't want to play primarily, or they simply do not like many jobs. I personally am an example of this kind of person to some extent. I like WAR, MNK, WHM, and SCH, I refuse to play any of these jobs at this point however. My favorite job in Final Fantasy as a whole, including FFXI, is RDM, always has been, always will be. The fact of the matter is that RDM is not all to useful, hasn't been for quite some time, before I started to really even play past XP parties, so most of the time I have no ability to play my job. The fact that I did like WAR, MNK, WHM, and SCH, meant that people almost always told me to play those jobs, and my play time on RDM was so minor that for a full year I never actually joined a party for anything meaningful whatsoever on my main job. Nowadays I purposely allowed my other jobs to fall so far behind that I will never bring them back up to the point of use again, I enjoy them, but I will not play them because I want to play RDM, and if I have them as options, RDM no longer becomes one.

The point I am trying to make with that, is that by playing other jobs which I do like, I can not play the one which I enjoy the most as no one will let me. If you do that with a new player it will be no different, in fact, it will be worse, because unlike me, a person who has a well established RDM and actually has a rep to some extent on my server for being a RDM, a new player would have no real stand out gear. A new player such as Crevox, who wants to play SMN, would be stuck on their WHM, BRD, or COR for everything without a second thought most likely, and after they have a rep for playing those jobs what are the chances they will break that rhythm and be allowed to play their SMN?



Right here, Draylo was basically saying that Crevox messed up by choosing to play SMN, he made the mistake of picking a job he thought he would like even though he said himself he came in knowing full well that SMN was not all to great and useful in parties. Are you telling me that in order to play this game and even try to enjoy events with other players that a person should level only jobs of use and not even expect to play the jobs they think they will enjoy?

Yes because its an MMO. In any other MMO, you can't have 6/6 healers in one group to fight bosses and dungeons, SOME of them have to compromise and go other jobs. The same is said for this game, SMN can be fit into any end-game scenario reliably but it won't be the best. You would have to play a different job if you want to "rush" into endgame like the OP wants to.

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Originally Posted by Fukushima_Radiation

Everquest 1 still has a community. What is your point?

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That this game offers something different, and storylines are part of it.
I was responding to this statement: "I can guarantee you that the majority of people do not go MMORPG hunting for a good story".
I had to disagree with that. I don't know about the majority of people, but i know a lot of FF11 players do enjoy storylines.

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Originally Posted by Fukushima_Radiation

Nothing in this game is straightforward, and if you think it is, you may need to play another (any) game/MMO for a bit and get out under that little rock you live under. I can bet you anything that no one in this thread would be happy about another mission/quest that is like ZM11 (looking for Maryoh Comyujah).

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Same as the other guy with his "majority of people", you're speaking for other people, yet you don't seem to have any clue.
I could agree with ZM11. But i still think it's better than this Adoulin's mission where you have to find a few KIs all located in the city, with the 1st one given by the npc you get the quest from.
I'd rather run around and go hunt for those KI spread out in all Adoulin's zones.
Yes, i find it straight forward, but that's only my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Fukushima_Radiation

You may not empathize with new players and expect them to "ask, ask, ask," but it's simply not viable and you are taking a LOT for granted. Not only does it paint the player as a helpless, needy newbie (that this game's elitist playerbase doesn't want to touch with a 10-foot pole and may ostracize in future events) or assume that he will understand everything right away, it is also impractical and frustrating. I was not a new player and even I was overwhelmed in aby with understanding cruor/lights/fluxes/trophies/bastion etc. Now you expect a new player to understand lights/fluxes/keys/seals/crests/bayld/conquest/assault points/ancient beastcoins/sparks/imperial standing/tokens/allied notes/kinetics/plasm/resistance credits/cruor/dominion notes/battle trophies/traverser stones/voidstones/etc? Who's really being unreasonable here?

Any why did I say it was impractical? Let's say there is a mission in Castle Oztroja and you get a cutscene upon entering, and no clues about what follows, but the next part is just up the stairs. Do you expect the new player to go back to a city, ask, wait for a response, then run back to Castle Oztroja to run back up the stairs maybe up to 2 hours later than he otherwise could have? He might not know about warp scrolls and he probably won't know that Jeuno has linked chat but the 3 cities don't because, once again, there is no indication from the game. Or do you expect him to find one of those holier-than-thou "newbie-helpers" that always toot their own horns on these forums (because, clearly, they have made a HUGE difference in the game and we all know 100 of them) to give them info on demand and teach them how to use a wiki and what info to look up? Not very realistic at all. A WoW-style pop-up window with some clear hints would be a godsend in this game.

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No indication from the game, really?
Try hit "/? shout", or "/? yell".
That works for every single command, by the way.

And, why warp?
Did you miss the point where i mentioned ls chat?
Maybe you would paint a player asking questions as a needy newbie. A lot of other people wouldn't, especially among ls members.
When new players ask questions, and it doesn't matter how many, people take the time to answer, and rephrase if their answer wasn't clear enough.
They would also escort if needed or asked.
I don't know what is this elitist playerbase you're refering to, and I don't know how numerous it is. Some players may be elitist. I don't think you can label the whole playerbase that way.
I just know i've met helpful players.

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Originally Posted by Fukushima_Radiation

And please don't ever bring up how this game was "designed in the first place." I could elaborate on how idiotic that statement is, no matter who it comes from, but it has been said by many others before on this and every other ffxi forum.

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Could argue on that forever.
I personaly liked this game for what it was. Changes are necessary, but making it become as every other MMO is not. What works for something doesn't necessary fits to FF11.
Your pop-up window is one example.