No Salvage Fixes until after march of next year? Camate tell me it isnt so.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You're kidding, right?

An excess of "free" gil flooding into the market and no reasonable gil sinks equates to there being the same amount of gil in the market? Right now, the only way gil disappears is when players quit with hundreds of millions of gil. And no one does that. People with money either give it away or RMT it when they quit the vast majority of the time, keeping the gil in circulation.

I've lost count of the number of people I know with 100M+ and nothing to spend it on.

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At what point did I say there was less gil in circulation? Didn't think so. I said less people for it to flow between, therefore, people have more.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

gil is 10x easier to make thanks to dynamis nowadays, I didn't say there is more gils. A solo BST will make 2-3 million gils in 2H today. Back at 75 you were happy with 100k per hour on THF( which was what demon farming in catle zwahl was giving for example.)

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Not exactly. Dynamis isn't creating gil it's just circulating it between players. Dynamis could be 10+ mil per run, wouldn't matter if it's only in between players as the total in game money supply stays the same.

Only way to create gil is through NPCing stuff or getting monetary rewards from some NPC. Basically SE controls how much gil is in the game via NPC prices.

Think of it like this, you get 100 currency that you sell to someone for 10K each (made up price). Where did that other player get that 1mil? If he sold off other items, then were did those people get there money from? If you keep following the money source you end up at someone NPCing stuff to create gil since NPC's have infinite gil supply. There is no Bank of FFXI to create money. Even the Mog bananza was financed through the use of players gil for lottery tickets, if anything it removed gil from circulation.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

At what point did I say there was less gil in circulation? Didn't think so. I said less people for it to flow between, therefore, people have more.

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Gil has certainly been pouring into the market from nowhere post-Abyssea (hi blinkers). So, either gil is somehow leaving the market at an equal rate (in order to maintain equilibrium, which you did state), or the amount of gil in circulation is rapidly increasing.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Not exactly. Dynamis isn't creating gil it's just circulating it between players. Dynamis could be 10+ mil per run, wouldn't matter if it's only in between players as the total in game money supply stays the same.

Only way to create gil is through NPCing stuff or getting monetary rewards from some NPC. Basically SE controls how much gil is in the game via NPC prices.

Think of it like this, you get 100 currency that you sell to someone for 10K each (made up price). Where did that other player get that 1mil? If he sold off other items, then were did those people get there money from? If you keep following the money source you end up at someone NPCing stuff to create gil since NPC's have infinite gil supply. There is no Bank of FFXI to create money. Even the Mog bananza was financed through the use of players gil for lottery tickets, if anything it removed gil from circulation.

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Thats not what i wrote.

I wrote that gil is 10x easier to make. If I go in dynamis with my pink thf/dnc mule i'll make maybe 150 coins and a few journeys, whichs is 2millions gils. So 1 millions gil in 1hour of work. Back int the day when salvage was relevant, and when i was raising money to upgrade bodies, for 1 hour work I was making 100k gil on my THF from farming random crap. Therefore its 10x easier to make money now. Since the alexandrite prices where multiplied by 3 though, mythic didn't become 10x easier to make, but more like 3x easier ( gil wise), while relics are 10-15x easier.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

Thats not what i wrote.

I wrote that gil is 10x easier to make. If I go in dynamis with my pink thf/dnc mule i'll make maybe 150 coins and a few journeys, whichs is 2millions gils. So 1 millions gil in 1hour of work. Back int the day when salvage was relevant, and when i was raising money to upgrade bodies, for 1 hour work I was making 100k gil on my THF from farming random crap. Therefore its 10x easier to make money now. Since the alexandrite prices where multiplied by 3 though, mythic didn't become 10x easier to make, but more like 3x easier ( gil wise), while relics are 10-15x easier.

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And you've made exactly 0 gil. If you used reraise items or other consumables then you've actually removed gil from the game (assuming the materials came at least partially from NPCs).

You don't make 1~2 mil gil, someone else gives you that money for your currency. That person had to of gotten that money from somewhere. If their crafting foods then they got it from other people buying their crafts, those people had to of gotten that money from somewhere. All the neo-dynamis update did was serve to circulate gil more, absolutely nothing is being made. The gardening / NPCing mules are whats making money for their owners to buy your currency. You can already see this effect by watching currency prices, their on their way down. Too many people are "making" 150 coins per run, the demand of people willing to pay for those currency is going down and thus we're entering into an oversupply situation. I was seeing singles for 5~6K in people's bazaars when ends up being less then 1 mil when averaged. Over time it'll go down even further until its no longer worth your time to farm them and then the price wills stabilize.

Holy water's and various gardening mules are what create gil (in the past), fishing is another big one as your littering pulling gil from the ocean. Anything else is just circulating what's already in the game.

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Originally Posted by saevel

And you've made exactly 0 gil.

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While I normally delight in semantics, I think the forest is being lost for the trees on this one. The act of "personally gaining money" has long been colloquially accepted as "making money." Nit-picking that word choice is unnecessary.

I am not disputing your economic points, merely the fixation on the word "make."

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Originally Posted by saevel

Basically SE controls how much gil is in the game via NPC prices.

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I used to feel this way - and I applauded them for it.

As other people have mentioned, Chocobo Blinkers are, currently, one of the largest points of entry for gil in the economy - and there has not been a corrosponding gil sink put in place to offset it. I am not sure the cat can be put back in the bag on this one, either. Not that I want things to go back to four hours of farming cralwer silk to pay the rent, but it would be nice if Abyssea didn't let us just "print money."

My two cents, for its ever-decreasing worth.
~Anna

If Legion maintains any level of popularity, you'll pretty much have the gil sink some have been clamoring for. Unfortunately, that'll eventually translate to those not sitting on large piles of gil suffering the most, and they're not the vast majority some might want us to believe.

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Originally Posted by Annahya

While I normally delight in semantics, I think the forest is being lost for the trees on this one. The act of "personally gaining money" has long been colloquially accepted as "making money." Nit-picking that word choice is unnecessary.

I am not disputing your economic points, merely the fixation on the word "make."~Anna

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Ohh I'm not trying to get into semantics, the original for this tangent was about the money supply inside the game. Someone commented that 50M a few years ago is 500M now and that gil is 10x easier to "make". This game hasn't experienced much inflation over the last couple years ever since SE wielded the hammer on Holy Water / Gardening / AFK Fishers. Chocobo blinkers are only 1:2.17 convert ratio and requires a ridiculously amount of button mashing. It create's gil but no where near the speed of the older methods.

Plus gil sinks are common, food / ammo / consumables, we use them so often we don't think about it.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Ohh I'm not trying to get into semantics, the original for this tangent was about the money supply inside the game. Someone commented that 50M a few years ago is 500M now and that gil is 10x easier to "make". This game hasn't experienced much inflation over the last couple years ever since SE wielded the hammer on Holy Water / Gardening / AFK Fishers. Chocobo blinkers are only 1:2.17 convert ratio and requires a ridiculously amount of button mashing. It create's gil but no where near the speed of the older methods.

Plus gil sinks are common, food / ammo / consumables, we use them so often we don't think about it.

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The "make" you referenced is exactly what I was talking about - I am not speaking to the 50m is 500m vague-inflation-insinuation, but I think the "make" in that post was regarding the acquisition of personal wealth becoming easier - not the economic creation of currency.

Also, many of the gil sinks you mentioned are merely the transferring about of existing currency that you yourself mentioned regarding ancient currency. A significant amount of the ammunition/food/consumables are crafted by individuals who farm some or all of their ingredients - and the money spent on them just transfers to said player(s). Yes some leaks out by way of vendor purchased materials, but much of it is just the same old transfer of wealth.

I would also disagree that choco blinkers are not as fast as other methods of making money - yes, the keystrokes are annoying, but not very timeconsuming when you get the muscle memory down (and some use hotkey scripts to buy blinkers while AFK), and while the conversion is only 1:2.65 or whatever, the resource farmed and hoarded (cruor) is earned while doing other things.

Gardening requires being able to check on plants, AFK fishing requires the character to be tied up fishing, etc. Cruor is generated by actually playing the way many do - either EXP/NMs/Skilling up in Abyssea, or by spamming Voidwatch.

Is it super fast? Perhaps, no, by some arbitrary metric; but it passively happens while playing the game. Then with a small time investment, vast amounts of gil are pulled from thin air. This is where chocobo blinkers become a potential issue - and without true gil sinks like 1m (and later 500k) hourglasses pulling gil out of the hands of players (just one example), we end up with many more individuals sitting on millions than in previous game-eras.

I am not saying people couldn't collect millions before, they certainly could - now it is just in the reach of the every-player, and most places to spend it put it in the hands of another player.