[Soap Box] {Lock On} & general charity shouts

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Originally Posted by Vortex

My point of this before it goes any further is, you are wasting gill on absurdly easy to get items.

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My point is you're wasting time getting absurdly easy to get items when you could make much more gil in the same amount of time.

Say your method got you 6 +2 items you need and made you 1mil in NPCables/Scrolls/PIs from random gold chests (I doubt you'd get anywhere near 1mil tbh outside of Heroes zones)
My method got me those same 6 +2 items and made me 2.1-3.1mil gil...

While I spent 900k that you didn't I also made 3-4 times the amount of gil leaving me at a 2-3 times profit of time to gil ratio compared to you.

As to the NM factor, well the first time I fight a NM its fun, the 2nd+ time I fight a NM its boring because I've already done it once. Do I fight NMs more than once? Sure, but that doesn't mean its practical.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

My point is you're wasting time getting absurdly easy to get items when you could make much more gil in the same amount of time.

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I can make 500k+ in 3-4 hours of farming only in abyssea, making gill is not a problem, so you can throw that part out. the diffrence is i don't waste it on dumb crap, like seals and +2 items.

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Say your method got you 6 +2 items you need and made you 1mil in NPCables/Scrolls/PIs from random gold chests (I doubt you'd get anywhere near 1mil tbh outside of Heroes zones)
My method got me those same 6 +2 items and made me 2.1-3.1mil gil...

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See above, this includes a vision zone. if you havnt noticed gill has lost alot of value latelty. so being "stinking rich" dosn't get you anywhere unless it's people like you who throw gill at anything to get everything. or making a relic, which i have no interest in. if i REALLY wanted to, the stuff i can duo people (like you) i can just get to pay millions, so IF i wanted to i can make about 3-5 mil multiple times a night, example i can duo rani, that alone right there is huge chunk of gill. thats IF i wanted, but i don't care.

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While I spent 900k that you didn't I also made 3-4 times the amount of gil leaving me at a 2-3 times profit of time to gil ratio compared to you.

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900k for a seals? unless it a set of 12x2-3 900 is a huge waste if you are paying for anything less then 12, so you also proved you over pay easily.

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As to the NM factor, well the first time I fight a NM its fun, the 2nd+ time I fight a NM its boring because I've already done it once. Do I fight NMs more than once? Sure, but that doesn't mean its practical.

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You're ratio isn't adding up in my case because i am quite comfy with low manning and as i said above i can make lots of gill if i really needed it that badly. so not only do i not waste gill on easy to get items, i can actually make more then you do in a shorter time, based on my exp with duing specific NMS. and my knowlegde of them, so once again, no your method is not practical, at least for me.

as i said, a fool and his money.

Who cares? He can just go do Dynamis and make more than 900k in 2 hours.

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Originally Posted by Vortex

900k for a seals? unless it a set of 12x2-3 900 is a huge waste if you are paying for anything less then 12, so you also proved you over pay easily.

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I've said +2s and have only been talking about +2s all along dunno where you're getting seals.

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Originally Posted by Vortex

You're ratio isn't adding up in my case because i am quite comfy with low manning and as i said above i can make lots of gill if i really needed it that badly. so not only do i not waste gill on easy to get items, i can actually make more then you do in a shorter time, based on my exp with duing specific NMS. and my knowlegde of them, so once again, no your method is not practical, at least for me.

as i said, a fool and his money.

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You said this:

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Originally Posted by Vortex

I can make 500k+ in 3-4 hours of farming only in abyssea, making gill is not a problem, so you can throw that part out. the diffrence is i don't waste it on dumb crap, like seals and +2 items.

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Quick question while you're farming for that 500k are you also killing the NMs required for the KIs to get to the NM for the +2s?

And I said I make 3-4 million in those same 3-4 hours, that's a difference of 2.5-3.5 million gil. Lets add in that 900k I "wasted" I'm still ahead 1.6-2.6 million gil over you... While I agree gil has little value it still has uses and my way gets me more of it while getting the items I want.

A fool parting with money while still walking away with more money than you got out of the same time frame with the same non-monetary rewards isn't really a fool.

I've fought every NM in Abyssea pardon me for not enjoying having to fight them over and over again, at least not all of them. I know strategies for them, some depend on luck, some depend on a lot of jobs, and some can't safely/consistently be duoed.

When a merc group can get you the items you need in a fraction of the time it would take you allowing you all that extra time to make more gil than they charge that is more practical. If you are morally opposed to take that route or just don't find it the fun way of acquiring said item(s) that's fine but has nothing to do with the overall practicality of a merc group.

Some people in this thread doesn't seem to understand exactly how money works.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I've said +2s and have only been talking about +2s all along dunno where you're getting seals.

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I guess i got that part mixed up considering neither are anywhere near difficult to get, nor worth wasting money on, my mistake on that. you also notice i said 12/12 when nothing actually needs 12 items, which i left in because i think it's funny and i don't know why i said that when most seals are 8/8 or 10/10 bodies.

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Quick question while you're farming for that 500k are you also killing the NMs required for the KIs to get to the NM for the +2s?

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No, i have been done with +2 farming for ages now, this is when i am doing mediocre stuff liek farmign dark rings or other augumented items, or hell even just farming something like an EE pop, it is not all in one zone,. and it depends on what im doing and why i was there in the 1st place.

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And I said I make 3-4 million in those same 3-4 hours, that's a difference of 2.5-3.5 million gil. Lets add in that 900k I "wasted" I'm still ahead 1.6-2.6 million gil over you... While I agree gil has little value it still has uses and my way gets me more of it while getting the items I want.

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Well good for you. my 900k stayed with me.

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A fool parting with money while still walking away with more money than you got out of the same time frame with the same non-monetary rewards isn't really a fool.

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You're spending gill on items not worth spending gill on, that imo is a fool. your view of it is obviously diffrent then mine, but to me, that is indeed a fool. or a sucker. take your pick.

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I've fought every NM in Abyssea pardon me for not enjoying having to fight them over and over again, at least not all of them. I know strategies for them, some depend on luck, some depend on a lot of jobs, and some can't safely/consistently be duoed.

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why do you play this then? all this game consists of is needless, nonestop grinding. of doing the same thing over and over again, you're doing something over and over to make that gill, and it is by the same defintion of fighting something over and over, unless somone is coming up to you handing you the gill. (we know what that is) only diffrence is i'm not spending any gill doing the same thing you are doing.

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When a merc group can get you the items you need in a fraction of the time it would take you allowing you all that extra time to make more gil than they charge that is more practical. If you are morally opposed to take that route or just don't find it the fun way of acquiring said item(s) that's fine but has nothing to do with the overall practicality of a merc group.

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There is that time thing again, seriously all this game is is TIME, weither it be by my working for my crap or you working for your gill to have others like me work for you to get you your gear. stop with the time factor because it is an irrelavent element to this dicussion, i doubt anyone just plays this game to stand in town and do nothing.

oh and no i do not find it fun giving somone money to do somethign i can easily do my self. so yea i am really opposed to this sort of thing, but to each his own. but thanks to people like you. i can also take advantage of making lots of gill by finding somone who will buy anything, such as your self. so really it works out in the end for both parts. you like spending gill, i like making it while saving as much as possible, to spend on things worth spending it on.

i don't care what you do with your gill honestly. but you'll have to agree that people pay insane, dumb prices for things not worth it, like vivid strap +1 selling for 8m+ and it's benefits are no where near worth that much, etc.

I don't think you understand how time = gil works. What exactly is worth wasting gil on? I mean heck I hope you craft all of your consumables or any of your non R/E gear because really they aren't "worth" wasting gil on... Oh and farm all of the items required for the synth because you'd be "wasting gil" if you don't farm the items. I can apply your logic to anything that doesn't make it practical logic.

The only real reason I play this game is to hang out with friends who don't actually live near me and help them with stuff they want to do, or team up and do something that sounds fun to all of us.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I don't think you understand how time = gil works. What exactly is worth wasting gil on? I mean heck I hope you craft all of your consumables or any of your non R/E gear because really they aren't "worth" wasting gil on... Oh and farm all of the items required for the synth because you'd be "wasting gil" if you don't farm the items. I can apply your logic to anything that doesn't make it practical logic.

The only real reason I play this game is to hang out with friends who don't actually live near me and help them with stuff they want to do, or team up and do something that sounds fun to all of us.

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I edited my last post at the end, you should understand now, this is just me personally.

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Originally Posted by Vortex

I edited my last post at the end, you should understand now, this is just me personally.

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I've actually known all along it was your personal opinions fueling your stance while my point was merely on practicality that's why i referenced a few times how the fun factor, moral factor, and even the value factor (don't think i mentioned this directly more implied) have nothing to do with practicality.

Personally I agree a lot of things have ridiculous prices for the actual benefit and somethings are very cheap in value (+2s offered by the merc group on my server falls into this category for me).

Calling someone a fool/moron/idiot etc. like the person I initially responded to did for making a practical decision annoys me because those insults are thrown around because of personal feelings and have nothing to do with the decision.

this argument reminds me of the days Rangers levelled woodworking to craf their arrows, mages levelled cooking to craft their drinks and so on... lol. Or fishermen who thought real fisher get their 10k moat carps on their own, and nowaday, real DD get their empyreands without breweing. lol. Fishing 10,000 carps teached you how to fish moat carps, nothing else. Killing 75 draguas tells you how to kill dragua, nothing else. Every abyssea NM gets boring after you killed it like 5 times.

Anyone serious about the game knows the most expensive parameter in the game is time, whether you are hardcor or not. What is my time worth? What's that other player's time worth? It depends on each individual. The best way to make money in the game atm for me is dynamis. I'm getting 300 coins ( 3millions) for 2 hours of my work and with 2 players + alts, so my time is worth: 1.5Million per hour.

Why would I bother camp sisyphus for example, and get one drop every 3 NMs with TH8 ( 1 hour) when I could do dynamis and buy 10 pops in the same time.

Why would a crafter gather all his mats through farming, mining, fishing, etc, when they are massively available on the AH?NPC vendors and he can easilly fund his craft with X BCNM?

Its called economy. One player finds its profitable to farm random abyssea POP items and AH them at the end of the day, and another player is really happy to buy it from them because his abyssea time is too precious to waste it farming. Etc.

Buying r/e item/titles/etc has been part off FF economy for long ( BB items yo).